New to the list, and asking for help

[Matt Sullivan]

Hi Pedro, see responses below

 

-Matt Sullivan

 

GRAFIX Training, Inc.

An Adobe Authorized Training Center

www.grafixtraining.com

888 882-2819 


-----Original Message-----
From: framers-bounces+matt=grafixtraining.com at lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+matt=grafixtraining.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Pedro Pastor

 
My main interest in FrameMaker is for XML-documents authoring tasks. I
am quite new to FrameMaker (few weeks experience, 7.2 installed), but I
have a good background and experience working with XML technologies.
 
The first impression when learning Structured FM is double:
 
-          An impressive tool.
-          Weird and complicated way of dealing with XML.
 
Maybe the troubles I've found come from my inexperience developing
structured applications in FM, but I cannot fully understand the aim
behind the (so called) "XML-roundtrip" editing

***Some folks need to both send and receive XML. Made-up example: Boeing
gets XML from subcontractors, but must combine and deliver as XML to
American Airlines. 
Some folks need only format XML for output, take your pick. I just finished
a phone directory project for CSULB that went quite smoothly in InDesign,
didn't require a DTD or really any structure experience at all.
Some folks need only to deliver XML versions of their doc's. If so,
unstructured Frame might fit the bill, without the rigors of a Structured
Application. You lose a lot of control, but it gets the job done.
 
1)       I cannot understand how to clearly separate structure from
presentation in FM. If EDD contains structure and presentation
information we are against the main principles of SGML/XML document
design!!

***OK...but that presentation info is for FrameMaker for a given authoring
environment. That's a bit like saying CSS goes against those principles by
formatting the content in a browser window. The EDD allows for consistent
formatting in a given environment. That formatting info is not forced into
the XML/SGML unless passed as attributes and values.
 
2)       It seems like there are two placeholders for storing
presentation information: Templates and EDD documents. This could be
redundant, I mean, the same presentation definition data could be store
on both places.

*** Think of the Template as storing the Unstructured Frame items (see the
File/Import/Formats dialog box) and the EDD as storing text format rules.  

A template has a copy of the EDD stored with it, as does any structured
Frame doc. Within documents, Frame does not allow reference to an external
EDD nor does it allow reference to an external template. I typically keep
the EDD separate, but import any changes to the EDD immediately to my
template.
 
3)       In addition to this, Template document could have structure
associated with it (via importing EDD document). Then we get just
another way of associating structure to documents, apart from the DTD
specification!!).

***See response to 2)
 
4)       When working with XML applications like DocBook, I don't
understand the need for "Rules" just to change capital letters. It seems
like FM is not working internally in XDocBook when you choose to work
with an XDocBook application. In fact, the structure generated by FM is
not even DocBook 4.x compliant.

***Reference Concrete Syntax and the SGML/XML declaration establishes naming
limitations for structured element names. Frame allows deviation from those
limits through the Read/Write Rules. These rules also allow for various
element and attribute changes, as well as changing attribute values into
actual Frame formatting, and changing Frame formatting back into attribute
values.
 
 
 It seems to me that this roundtrip is  trying to match a mature legacy
product (Structured FrameMaker) with the new emergent XML technologies,
but it is not intended for XML authoring (as its main objective). At
this point, (it seems)  it is easy to me to produce XML documentation
(using whatever DTD I'd like) by means of more "developer-oriented" XML
editors like XML_Spy or Oxygen together with XSLT+CSS style-sheets then
all the burden of taming Structured FM for this purpose.

***Depends on what your definition of "is" is (Sorry, Bill Clinton)
By Authoring XML, if you mean writing and editing long documents (with
graphics, numbering, references, and the like) to be delivered in XML,
print, PDF, and other formats, I don't know of a better tool. Seriously, if
anyone does, please let me know...I'll put my eggs in that basket. Frame is
not the world's most intuitive or up-to-date interface, but to me is the
Toyota Land Cruiser (or Range Rover, if you prefer) of documentation.