SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.
Jacob Schäffer
js at grafikhuset.dk
Wed Sep 10 23:33:29 PDT 2008
Dov said:
<Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the Distiller.>
I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).
I'm unsure about licensing, though, especially if you upgraded from Acrobat 3. In case of *upgrade* the newer license agreement may supersede the older version license, and since the base 13 fonts was removed from 4 (or 5, I'm unsure which version, actually) your current license agreement may not cover use of the old version fonts.
Dov, what is correct here ???
Best regards
Jacob Schäffer
Grafikhuset
Denmark
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] På vegne af Dov Isaacs
> Sendt: 10. september 2008 21:19
> Til: Art Campbell; Inbar, Paul
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Emne: RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing
> printers, etc.
>
>
> The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows
> "phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by
> standard Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows
> printer drivers to insert font information to be passed back
> to the application even if such fonts are not actually
> installed on the system. PostScript printer drivers (and
> specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000,
> XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file -
> for Adobe PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136
> fonts! PCL drivers often enumerate fonts built into the printer.
>
> If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document
> and the font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you
> have set as the current print device, Windows will substitute
> something on the screen and your output will use the printer
> version of that font.
>
> The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years
> (first documented as part of a workaround for the infamous
> Zapf Dingbats problem - see
> <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.ef4dc7a>) is to edit all
> PostScript printer PPD files, either prior to doing a
> PostScript printer driver instance installation or afterwards
> (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL font references except one
> - you must keep the line that defines Courier. Once such an
> edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates
> printer-resident, i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.
>
> Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration
> (such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat)
> aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!
>
> Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe
> PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is
> not a native font of the Distiller.
>
> If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:
>
> (1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents
> and templates
> to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in
> fact a different font than "Times" although Microsoft (via
> Monotype) endeavored to keep the "set widths" of the
> characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times to
> minimize the chance of line ending differences.
>
> (2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe
> PostScript, it came with
> a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident
> fonts. You can install the fonts you need from that CD onto
> your computer.
>
> (3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times
> from Adobe or
> with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType
> version, Times LT Std and install that font on your system.
>
> - Dov
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Art Campbell
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:11 AM
> >
> > The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P,
> from your
> > description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still
> and extra
> > item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the
> > default page description language.
> >
> > Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the
> > best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF
> logical printer
> > as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to
> > default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the
> Adobe Acrobat
> > default is likely to solve your font problem too, because
> it is likely
> > to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul <paul.inbar at intel.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been
> > > looking at previous posts and articles on the web, but am
> still not
> > > sure I understand the issues and consequences.
> > >
> > > Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our
> > > regular Body paragraph tag.
> > >
> > > On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be
> fine. However,
> > > they are going to be taken offline in a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Recently, a new HP network printer was installed. When I
> made the HP
> > > printer the default printer and opened up one of our documents, I
> > > got the "Document named aaa.fm uses unavailable fonts. To
> reformat
> > > using available fonts, click OK" message. I opened the doc. Times
> > > appeared checked but greyed out in the right-click
> context menu. I
> > > printed on the HP. The printout looks identical, as far as I can
> > > tell, to the same doc printed on the xerox. I saved and
> closed, when
> > > I opened again, I got the same unavailable fonts message. When I
> > > make the Xerox printer the default once again, and open the
> > > document, I don't get the unavailable fonts message, and Times is
> > > once again black in the right-click font context menu.
> > >
> > > I looked around my system, in all the folders I saw mentioned in
> > > various sites, but didn't find Times anywhere. In the PDD
> file for
> > > the Xerox printer there is a line that has Times on it.
> The printer
> > > support people printed out the list of fonts on the HP.
> It doesn't
> > > appear to have Times.
> > >
> > > Now, I have several questions. I realize that it may not
> be possible
> > > to know exactly from this description what is going on, but I
> > > welcome guesses.
> > >
> > > Does it sound like I don't really have Times on my system, but
> > > Framemaker acts like Times is there when the Xerox is the
> selected
> > > printer because the Xerox has it?
> > >
> > > If the HP doesn't have it, what are the consequences of
> that? Which
> > > font did it use? Does it decide itself what is most
> compatible? It
> > > doesn't seem to have changed anything in my document.
> When I go back
> > > to the Xerox, Times seems ok again. Will the unavailable fonts
> > > message interfere with smooth updating of the book?
> > >
> > > What is the best course of action to take:
> > >
> > > Try to buy Times somewhere? (Or rather, try to convince my
> > > organization to buy Times somewhere) Change my templates to use
> > > Times New Roman? Just live with the unavailable fonts message?
> > >
> > > It once seemed to me that Times New Roman was a bit more crowded
> > > than Times. That's why I always resisted Times New Roman. Is the
> > > difference just a figment of my imagination? Also, is there a
> > > difference in appearance between Times Roman and Times New Roman?
> > >
> > > In short, any information would be appreciated, and will
> help me to
> > > communicate to the printer support people in my organization what
> > > the issues are. Right now they just regard me as the troublemaker
> > > who uses Framemaker...
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> >
> > --
> > Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
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