[Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter) bernard at publishingsmarter.com
Thu Mar 16 18:27:52 PDT 2017 

My 2 cents. I think that the new ones took a rework approach that needed pretty major work. I tried to find them like in the past, but they have been redesigned. I think it's perhaps new images, and vector based. So it's not as easy as I first thought it would be. However, color plays a MAJOR role in human recognition of content. While I do love the larger and auto-adjusting icons (as I go from my 3000/2000 resolution to 1280/768 and it just is "right" is great) I also would love to see color.

I can also say that I was a pain in the butt to the Adobe team on the FM2017 stuff with massive wish list requests, bugs founds, and questions posed, so it's nice that they DID manage to get as much in as they could. Plus, we've given them something for the next release.

Lastly, even with UI and UX and other experts at Adobe poking at it, I'd like to point out that the majority of the FM user base is likely +30 in age, not under 30. That may mean that audience analysis done for tools like PS, AI, and others are not like those for FM. Also, Acrobat does have color icons in it and they are amongst the few that I use.

Off to work (late night conf call for me). Good discussions all,

Bernard



-----Original Message-----
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+bernard=publishingsmarter.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:27 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

FrameMaker 2015 provided the OPTION to use either unicolor or colored icons in the menu bar, and also to scale the menu bar icons larger. FrameMaker
2017 doesn't have the option available anymore.

I don't understand why providing that as an OPTION was taken away, since that allowed those who like color or larger scale icons in the menu/toolbars to have them, and those who prefer to have them look like the interface in other Adobe products to have that.

I don't think anyone here is asking that the menu/toolbar interface be all one way or all the other. We're asking that both ways be available, as they were in FM2015, so that we can make a choice regarding how we prefer them.


On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Stefan Gentz <gentz at adobe.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> we heard you!
>
> Thanks for all your feedback on the new icon design. We do appreciate 
> your feedback.
>
> As you might imagine, we did not take the decision to go for a 
> uni-color design easy and a lot of considerations and user feedback went into this.
> And yes, there was a diverse feedback from users: Some users liked the 
> colored icons (for reasons many if you mentioned here as well) and 
> strongly encouraged us to keep the colored icons, others preferred a 
> uni-color design as they are used to it from other Adobe Apps and 
> because they preferred a more "calm", less "distracting" working 
> environment and strongly encouraged us to go for this. Also there is a 
> wide range of users worldwide throughout many countries and cultures 
> and age groups with a wide range of expectations.
>
> And no, we did not "dismiss and belittled" feedback in the prerelease 
> phase. But the feedback came in a very late phase and there was no 
> time left to take this into consideration. There are hundreds of icons 
> and the majority of them are in multiple sites for the new high-dpi 
> screen compatibility. It's nothing that can be done "overnight".
>
> Again, we did hear you and understand that there is a wide range of 
> personal preferences and tastes. We will discuss this over the next 
> weeks internally and explore the possibilities to satisfy the wishes 
> from both user groups – those who like the colored icons and those who 
> prefer uni-colored icons.
>
> By the way, my personal take on this is: I like the uni-color design 
> and prefer it over the colored icons. I like it, because it's more 
> calm and allows me to focus more on the content and get less 
> distracted by a big bunch of "candy-colored" icons (yes, Matt Sullivan, I know … ;-)).
> I'm just used to this style as I also work every day in PhotoShop, 
> Illustrator and InDesign as well. And I'm used to it, as many modern 
> apps, tools, systems all have this kind of design. I just like it and 
> it's for sure a personal preference.
> By the way, I work with FrameMaker intensively for more than 20 years 
> and have pushed out several million of pages and went through all the 
> UI changes over the last ten product generations. And personally I 
> think the new FM 2017 UI is the best FrameMaker ever had – in terms of 
> logical enhancements and restructuring, terminology enhancements and 
> consistency, user-friendliness and productivity enhancements and 
> technical advancements (I'm running FM on a modern high-dpi screen and 
> LOVE the crystal clear, sharp UI and text editing).
> But again, that's just my personal 2 cents as a hardcore and long-term 
> user ;-)
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Stefan Gentz
> Global Evangelist, Technical Communication 
> [Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/
> products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>   [Adobe FrameMaker Icon] <
> http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>   [Adobe RoboHelp Icon] <
> http://www.adobe.com/products/robohelp.html>   [Adobe Captivate Icon] <
> http://www.adobe.com/products/captivate.html>   [Adobe Acrobat Icon] <
> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat.html>
> Connect with us:
> [http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg]
> Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/adobetcs> | [http://blogs.adobe.com/ 
> techcomm/files/2015/12/twitter.jpg]  
> Twitter<https://twitter.com/adobetcs>
> | [http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/LinkedIn.jpg]  
> | LinkedIn<
> https://www.linkedin.com/groups/2381149> | [http://blogs.adobe.com/ 
> techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg]  YouTube<https://www.youtube.
> com/user/AdobeTCS> | [http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Blog.
> jpg] Our Blog<http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/>  | [ 
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Forum-Chats.jpg]  Adobe 
> TCS User Forum<https://forums.adobe.com/community/technical_
> communications_suite>
>
>
> On 16 Mar 2017, at 18:38, Lin Sims <ljsims.ml at gmail.com<mailto:lj 
> sims.ml at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims 
> <ljsims.ml at gmail.com<mailto:lj sims.ml at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison 
> <acraig at bkultrasound.com< mailto:acraig at bkultrasound.com>>
> wrote:
>
> I voted for both of them.
>
> Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment 
> this morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))
>
> Alison
>
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig= 
> bkultrasound.com at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bkultras
> ound.com at lists.frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and 
> scaling to menu icons
>
> Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com%2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
> 2451&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> JiIxwuDihAvXnnzyq0LGNwxcEIpmC6LPkZz%2BAwOEhoY%3D&reserved=0
>
> (Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
> request.)
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com 
> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com%3e> 
> wrote:
>
> 2017-03-10-05T14:00Z
>
> Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not 
> survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.
>
> So, I just submitted it again.
>
> At https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com%2F%23%2Fadd_feature&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=1%2BXyjsi8w8rLFHHB%
> 2B1hCMWokuG7GjjWC7fZ7NtmSMLQ%3D&reserved=0 , the "Bug Id" is 
> FRMAKER-2451.
>
> Thank you for your support.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com<http://gd-ms.
> com>@lists.
> frameusers.com<http://frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and 
> scaling to menu icons
>
> Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com 
> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com%3e>
> wrote:
>
> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request. I also pointed out that your 
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the 
> dialog box for index entries. Good luck.
>
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com<http://gd-ms.
> com>@lists.
> frameusers.com<http://frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> To: Frame Users
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling 
> to menu icons
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most 
> displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the 
> "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to 
> distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all 
> happy about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at 
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the 
> request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this 
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let 
> Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
> Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who 
> complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com%2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
> 2449&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> a8Xv2CwRhnL36Hxpyl5ls6yRBLcLFMi6L0zVOJtjlrM%3D&reserved=0
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
> frameusers.com><mailto:
> framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>> 
> Visit the list's homepage at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frameusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=p6LMFYC4n6CtnL%
> 2FY4majJJdJcOjquhsrMZgSi5mMIXM%3D&reserved=0 Archives located at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fframers%2540lists.
> frameusers.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> lrBDx5c%2BiTmxq0pPGK8%2FVTspCSVLgrZqbQoaTcWNT%2BA%3D&reserved=0
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.frameusers.
> com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> y8ZKrWBsEt2mI%2FAhbw4GZR8mT1MnaWjybAgtAFjReKk%3D&reserved=0
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com<http://framers-frameusers.com>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com><mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:listadmin at frameusers.com>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
> frameusers.com><mailto:
> framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>> 
> Visit the list's homepage at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frameusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=p6LMFYC4n6CtnL%
> 2FY4majJJdJcOjquhsrMZgSi5mMIXM%3D&reserved=0 Archives located at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=lUwvpgHH4GjzB0ASOqaUFS2W2e3Xin
> M62fs5%2FTWQSWQ%3D&reserved=0 framers%40lists.frameusers.com/< 
> http://40lists.frameusers.com/> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Flists.frameusers.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=y8ZKrWBsEt2mI%
> 2FAhbw4GZR8mT1MnaWjybAgtAFjReKk%3D&reserved=0
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com<http://framers-frameusers.com>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com><mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:listadmin at frameusers.com>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
> frameusers.com><mailto:
> framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>> 
> Visit the list's homepage at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frameusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=p6LMFYC4n6CtnL%
> 2FY4majJJdJcOjquhsrMZgSi5mMIXM%3D&reserved=0 Archives located at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fframers%2540lists.
> frameusers.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> lrBDx5c%2BiTmxq0pPGK8%2FVTspCSVLgrZqbQoaTcWNT%2BA%3D&reserved=0
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.frameusers.
> com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> y8ZKrWBsEt2mI%2FAhbw4GZR8mT1MnaWjybAgtAFjReKk%3D&reserved=0
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com<http://framers-frameusers.com>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com><mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:listadmin at frameusers.com>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
> frameusers.com><mailto:
> framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>>
> Visit the list's homepage at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frameusers.
> com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> p6LMFYC4n6CtnL%2FY4majJJdJcOjquhsrMZgSi5mMIXM%3D&reserved=0
> Archives located at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=lUwvpgHH4GjzB0ASOqaUFS2W2e3Xin
> M62fs5%2FTWQSWQ%3D&reserved=0
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://40lists.frameusers.com/>
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.frameusers.
> com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> y8ZKrWBsEt2mI%2FAhbw4GZR8mT1MnaWjybAgtAFjReKk%3D&reserved=0
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com<http://framers-frameusers.com>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com><mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:listadmin at frameusers.com>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
> frameusers.com><mailto:
> framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>>
> Visit the list's homepage at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frameusers.
> com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> p6LMFYC4n6CtnL%2FY4majJJdJcOjquhsrMZgSi5mMIXM%3D&reserved=0
> Archives located at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Ffr&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=cgEErksBW110puWWnaHvLMlNQJ5WxP
> tuiV6KYAcRwaw%3D&reserved=0
> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://40lists.frameusers.com/>
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.frameusers.
> com%2Fli&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> or4HCoG%2FjIP%2FsWqQaIy1cSQ%2F17Gf75Z5QTTrlpVl2SU%3D&reserved=0
> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com<http://framers-frameusers.com>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com><mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:listadmin at frameusers.com>>
>
> ________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
> frameusers.com>
> Visit the list's homepage at  https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frameusers.
> com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> p6LMFYC4n6CtnL%2FY4majJJdJcOjquhsrMZgSi5mMIXM%3D&reserved=0
> Archives located at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Ffr&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=cgEErksBW110puWWnaHvLMlNQJ5WxP
> tuiV6KYAcRwaw%3D&reserved=0
> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://40lists.frameusers.com/>
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.frameusers.
> com%2Fli&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> or4HCoG%2FjIP%2FsWqQaIy1cSQ%2F17Gf75Z5QTTrlpVl2SU%3D&reserved=0
> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com<http://framers-frameusers.com>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
> frameusers.com>
> Visit the list's homepage at  https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frameusers.
> com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> p6LMFYC4n6CtnL%2FY4majJJdJcOjquhsrMZgSi5mMIXM%3D&reserved=0
> Archives located at 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fframers%2540lists.
> frameusers.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
> lrBDx5c%2BiTmxq0pPGK8%2FVTspCSVLgrZqbQoaTcWNT%2BA%3D&reserved=0
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.frameusers.
> com%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fframers-frameusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=YC38%
> 2FuC1kLwyemF8pBySAU46otu2MSSStBjPrxF33z4%3D&reserved=0
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com<mailto:
> listadmin at frameusers.com>
> _______________________________________________
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/ framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe 
> and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/ 
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com
>



--
Lin Sims
_______________________________________________

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com

More information about the Framers mailing list