[Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

Fri Mar 17 10:08:13 PDT 2017

You said that there are 3 sizes available for the icons. So what I'm
wondering is, is it possible to select a *preferred* size instead of the
one served up by default for whatever your resolution is. It won't be
color, but it'll be easier for those of us with eye issues to see.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Stefan Gentz <gentz at adobe.com> wrote:

> Hi Lin,
>
>
>
> > OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
> apologize.
>
>
>
> No need to apologize J I appreciate the open discussion!
>
>
>
> > Let me see if I understand now.
>
> > Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons
> so that
>
> > they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
> resources to
>
> > create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it
> wanted
>
> > to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the
> corporate
>
> > standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding
> features
>
> > and fixing bugs.
>
>
>
> Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have
> colored icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line
> with other Adobe products.
>
>
>
> > If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
> allow
>
> > users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones
> that
>
> > would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get
> weird?
>
>
>
> Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” …
> There is no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from
> 2015 do not work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are
> not compatible with high-dpi screens.
>
>
>
> In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based”
> and allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to
> provide a full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and
> all of them in three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not
> sure, if there would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …
>
>
>
> We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did
> hear you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a
> lot of long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old
> (many of them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid
> and important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to
> modernize FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly,
> we will have to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored
> icons, or changes requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF
> Engine, finally fixing CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries,
> more advanced search & replace functionalities … to call out just a few
> requests.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
>
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>
>
> *From:* Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims.ml at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 14:05
> *To:* Stefan Gentz <gentz at adobe.com>; Frame Users <
> framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
> scaling to menu icons
>
>
>
> OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
> apologize.
>
> Let me see if I understand now.
>
> Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons
> so that they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
> resources to create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor"
> standard if it wanted to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided
> to go with the corporate standard interface so that those resources could
> be applied to adding features and fixing bugs.
>
> Do I have it now?
>
> If so, I'm going to have to heave a heavy sigh of disappointment, because
> I can't really argue with the decision. I'd put bug fixing at the top of
> the list of priorities myself. I'm just sorry I don't currently have the
> opportunity to take advantage of the high resolution icons. (My home laptop
> is 6 years old, but I got a top of the line gaming rig so it isn't
> practical or necessary to replace it yet.)
>
> If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
> allow users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the
> ones that would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just
> get weird?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Stefan Gentz <gentz at adobe.com> wrote:
>
> I understood this, Lin.
>
>
>
> That's why I wrote:
>
>
>
> We will discuss this over the next weeks internally and explore the
> possibilities to satisfy the wishes from both user groups – those who like
> the colored icons and those who prefer uni-colored icons.
>
>
>
> The change to make FrameMaker compatible with high-res / high-dpi,
> scalable screens was a very heavy, but necessary and unavoidable
> investment. And the decision for the icons was to focus on one "theme",
> based on Adobe internal requirements, extensive market research, customer
> interviews and user feedback and involved UI and UX experts.
>
>
>
> Also, please understand, that due to huge the amount of icons (and every
> single of them in multiple sizes) providing both uni-colored and
> multi-colored would have been a substantial effort. Due to the changes in
> the UI technology all icons had to be created from the scratch.
>
> And after all we need to carefully balance between "cosmetic" dicersity
> and other all the other important wishes and requirements from the
> community.
>
>
>
> We all know how it is: When we invest now in colored icons because 33
> users have voted on a bug report that it is important for them, thousands
> of other users will come and say: What the heck, why are you wasting your
> efforts on the color of icons instead of bringing us feature a, b, c, d
> that we are asking for since xy?
>
>
>
> But don't get me wrong now, please. As I said, we appreciate the feedback
> from the frameusers community. And we heard you loud and clear. And as I
> said we will discuss it internally over the next weeks and explore what we
> can do to make you as our core group of users happy :-)
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Global Evangelist, Technical Communication
>
> [image: Adobe] <http://www.adobe.com/>  [image: Adobe TCS Icon]
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> On 17 Mar 2017, at 01:26, Lin Sims <ljsims.ml at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> FrameMaker 2015 provided the OPTION to use either unicolor or colored icons
> in the menu bar, and also to scale the menu bar icons larger. FrameMaker
> 2017 doesn't have the option available anymore.
>
> I don't understand why providing that as an OPTION was taken away, since
> that allowed those who like color or larger scale icons in the
> menu/toolbars to have them, and those who prefer to have them look like the
> interface in other Adobe products to have that.
>
> I don't think anyone here is asking that the menu/toolbar interface be all
> one way or all the other. We're asking that both ways be available, as they
> were in FM2015, so that we can make a choice regarding how we prefer them.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Stefan Gentz <gentz at adobe.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> we heard you!
>
>
>
> Thanks for all your feedback on the new icon design. We do appreciate your
>
> feedback.
>
>
>
> As you might imagine, we did not take the decision to go for a uni-color
>
> design easy and a lot of considerations and user feedback went into this.
>
> And yes, there was a diverse feedback from users: Some users liked the
>
> colored icons (for reasons many if you mentioned here as well) and strongly
>
> encouraged us to keep the colored icons, others preferred a uni-color
>
> design as they are used to it from other Adobe Apps and because they
>
> preferred a more "calm", less "distracting" working environment and
>
> strongly encouraged us to go for this. Also there is a wide range of users
>
> worldwide throughout many countries and cultures and age groups with a wide
>
> range of expectations.
>
>
>
> And no, we did not "dismiss and belittled" feedback in the prerelease
>
> phase. But the feedback came in a very late phase and there was no time
>
> left to take this into consideration. There are hundreds of icons and the
>
> majority of them are in multiple sites for the new high-dpi screen
>
> compatibility. It's nothing that can be done "overnight".
>
>
>
> Again, we did hear you and understand that there is a wide range of
>
> personal preferences and tastes. We will discuss this over the next weeks
>
> internally and explore the possibilities to satisfy the wishes from both
>
> user groups – those who like the colored icons and those who prefer
>
> uni-colored icons.
>
>
>
> By the way, my personal take on this is: I like the uni-color design and
>
> prefer it over the colored icons. I like it, because it's more calm and
>
> allows me to focus more on the content and get less distracted by a big
>
> bunch of "candy-colored" icons (yes, Matt Sullivan, I know … ;-)).
>
> I'm just used to this style as I also work every day in PhotoShop,
>
> Illustrator and InDesign as well. And I'm used to it, as many modern apps,
>
> tools, systems all have this kind of design. I just like it and it's for
>
> sure a personal preference.
>
> By the way, I work with FrameMaker intensively for more than 20 years and
>
> have pushed out several million of pages and went through all the UI
>
> changes over the last ten product generations. And personally I think the
>
> new FM 2017 UI is the best FrameMaker ever had – in terms of logical
>
> enhancements and restructuring, terminology enhancements and consistency,
>
> user-friendliness and productivity enhancements and technical advancements
>
> (I'm running FM on a modern high-dpi screen and LOVE the crystal clear,
>
> sharp UI and text editing).
>
> But again, that's just my personal 2 cents as a hardcore and long-term
>
> user ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Stefan Gentz
>
> Global Evangelist, Technical Communication
>
> [Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/
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> On 16 Mar 2017, at 18:38, Lin Sims <ljsims.ml at gmail.com<mailto:lj
>
> sims.ml at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims <ljsims.ml at gmail.com<mailto:lj
>
> sims.ml at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison <acraig at bkultrasound.com<
>
> mailto:acraig at bkultrasound.com <acraig at bkultrasound.com>>>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I voted for both of them.
>
>
>
> Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this
>
> morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))
>
>
>
> Alison
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=
>
> bkultrasound.com at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bkultras
>
> ound.com at lists.frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
>
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
>
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
>
> to menu icons
>
>
>
> Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:
>
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F2Ftracker.adobe.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C86149d2b6e51417ab88808d46d36301c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253526913224318&sdata=w7Q6ytkiww9Yg9sG4RJ%2FzAnH2o9Ll7eq00c9gNFAfMo%3D&reserved=0>
> %2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
>
> 2451&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
>
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=
>
> JiIxwuDihAvXnnzyq0LGNwxcEIpmC6LPkZz%2BAwOEhoY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> (Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
>
> request.)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com
>
> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com>>
>
> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com>%3e> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2017-03-10-05T14:00Z
>
>
>
> Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not
>
> survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.
>
>
>
> So, I just submitted it again.
>
>
>
> At https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F2Ftracker.adobe.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C86149d2b6e51417ab88808d46d36301c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253526913224318&sdata=w7Q6ytkiww9Yg9sG4RJ%2FzAnH2o9Ll7eq00c9gNFAfMo%3D&reserved=0>
> %2F%23%2Fadd_feature&data=02%7C01%7C%
>
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
>
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403&sdata=1%2BXyjsi8w8rLFHHB%
>
> 2B1hCMWokuG7GjjWC7fZ7NtmSMLQ%3D&reserved=0 , the "Bug Id" is
>
> FRMAKER-2451.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your support.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave Stamm
>
> Information Engineer
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgd-ms.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C86149d2b6e51417ab88808d46d36301c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253526913224318&sdata=jYRkPtvrdZKp6mfyo7%2BYh6xOPNU8oMW5lOl5D9Aq3G0%3D&reserved=0>
> <http://gd-ms.
>
> com>@lists.
>
> frameusers.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fframeusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C86149d2b6e51417ab88808d46d36301c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253526913224318&sdata=CBKBJEiusblHKMAidkpPwFD8%2Fi6THFv2dskdJar29RQ%3D&reserved=0>
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
> 2Fframeusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499&sdata=
> qOTLmcx065SwupV9edKesBomn5UNAJgGSrfui3Dtqxk%3D&reserved=0>] On Behalf Of
> Lin Sims
>
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
>
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
>
> scaling
>
> to menu icons
>
>
>
> Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com
>
> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com>>
>
> <mailto:David.Stamm at gd-ms.com <David.Stamm at gd-ms.com>%3e>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
>
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request. I also pointed out that your
>
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
>
> dialog box for index entries. Good luck.
>
>
>
> Dave Stamm
>
> Information Engineer
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgd-ms.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C86149d2b6e51417ab88808d46d36301c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253526913224318&sdata=jYRkPtvrdZKp6mfyo7%2BYh6xOPNU8oMW5lOl5D9Aq3G0%3D&reserved=0>
> <http://gd-ms.
>
> com>@lists.
>
> frameusers.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fframeusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C86149d2b6e51417ab88808d46d36301c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253526913224318&sdata=CBKBJEiusblHKMAidkpPwFD8%2Fi6THFv2dskdJar29RQ%3D&reserved=0>
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
> 2Fframeusers.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499&sdata=
> qOTLmcx065SwupV9edKesBomn5UNAJgGSrfui3Dtqxk%3D&reserved=0>] On Behalf Of
> Lin Sims
>
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
>
> To: Frame Users
>
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
>
> to menu icons
>
>
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
>
> displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
>
> "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
>
> distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
>
> happy about it.
>
>
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
>
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
>
> request.
>
>
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
>
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
>
> Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
>
> Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
>
> complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>
>
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F2Ftracker.adobe.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C86149d2b6e51417ab88808d46d36301c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253526913224318&sdata=w7Q6ytkiww9Yg9sG4RJ%2FzAnH2o9Ll7eq00c9gNFAfMo%3D&reserved=0>
> %2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
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>
> a8Xv2CwRhnL36Hxpyl5ls6yRBLcLFMi6L0zVOJtjlrM%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lin Sims
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.
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> <listadmin at frameusers.com>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lin Sims
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
>
>
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> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>>> Visit
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