[Framers] Arbortext v Frame
Peter Ring
peter.ring at texo.dk
Tue Nov 20 16:45:55 PST 2018
I'll second Paul Nagai's comments. It was a corporate thing before PTC took
over, and it has become very enterpricy since.
I'd like to add that I really like Arbortext Editor as an authoring tool,
and that Arbortext Styler is kind of magic. I wouldn't mind working in a
setting with an Arbortext-based publishing pipeline.
But it is most likely not worth it if you are comfortable with structured
FrameMaker and EDDs. Btw, FrameMaker 2019 comes with built-in SharePoint
integration.
If you want to or need to migrate to DITA, S1000D, or DocBook, it is very
feasible to continue using FrameMaker both for authoring and pagination.
DITA support is fair, S1000D is a bit dated but Mekon supplies an updated
application, and DocBook support is quite stale but might be sufficient.
regards
Peter Ring
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 12:21 AM Paul Nagai <naglists at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am not an author but I have been supporting an Arbortext XML authoring
> environment more or less full time since 2002.
>
> Is Arbortex easy to use and intuitive?
> No. Unless an author is more comfortable in a text (and tag) based editor
> AND thinks WYSIWYG is waste of CPU AND that formatting should be someone
> else's problem. That's not to say however, that it is harder to use or less
> intuitive than any other XML editor.
>
> Can Frame documents be imported into Arbortex easily and work?
> How easy is it to create templates/EDDs (equivalent) in Arbortext and
> modify them?
> As others have said: No, unless you are actually using Structured Frame to
> edit / publish XML files (DITA or otherwise). Even then, there is
> significant friction.
>
> Can conditional text (or equivalent) be used in Arbortex?
> Yes. Arbortext calls this profiling. In some ways, Arbortext's profiling is
> more stable than FrameMaker's conditional text. (This is not from my own
> direct experience but from FrameMaker users I have interacted with. They
> experience FM crashes due to conditions on a somewhat regular basis. They
> might have a more complex than most FM conditional implementation than
> most.) That said, profiles and conditions are not exactly the same and some
> adjustment to an author's thinking, planning, writing is required.
>
> Can JPEGs, TIFFs etc. be imported into Arbortex?
> Yes, but no. Arbortext authored XML can reference many graphic file
> formats. The graphics are not stored IN XML or Arbortext directly. They are
> referenced ... pointed to. As in, say:
> <img fileref="Docfolder\Graphicsubfolder\myjpeg.jpg">
>
> Are Arbortex and Sharepoint compatible?
> Depends on what you mean by compatible. I do not believe Arbortext
> supports Sharepoint integration. That is, you won't find a Sharepoint menu
> inside of Arbortext that lets you directly access a Sharepoint repository.
> However, if you "check files out" of Sharepoint to edit them, and check
> them back in using your operating system (Windows, probably ... Arbortext
> only runs on Windows), Arbortext will not complain. So ... they won't
> fight, but they won't help either.
>
> Anything that Frame can do that Arbortex wont?
> Make a PDF. Kind of serious ... you've said "Arbortext" and nearly all my
> responses refer specifically to Arbortext Editor, their XML editor.
> (Competitors include Oxygen and XMetal.) If you want to make a PDF, you
> will (usually) need to also acquire a composition engine ... something to
> make your PDFs with. If you stay with PTC tools, you might buy Arbortext
> Styler (for a very small shop). Styler is an enhanced version of Editor
> that can make PDFs. (It's main purpose is actually to do other things.) Or,
> more likely, you will buy Arbortext Publishing Engine which you will need
> to install on a server (Windows Server 2012 or 2016 most likely.) There are
> probably paths to PDF through the DITA Open Toolkit (if DITA is the XML
> format you were to choose) that wouldn't require additional purchases, but
> they would require someone to develop and maintain them. I don't think most
> Arbortext users go with the DITA OTK ... it's like wearing a flip-flop on
> one foot and a hiking boot on the other.
>
> You didn't ask about stylesheets ... because you're using FrameMaker where
> Paragraph and Character tags handle on-screen and PDF output/format all in
> one. XML is just data. There is no format. In order to make a PDF from XML
> you must have a stylesheet which tells a formatter what a <p> should look
> like (and when a <p> in a nested <li> should look different from the
> former). Those stylesheets can be pretty simple to very complex. Typically,
> you now also need a person whose job it is to create and maintain those
> stylesheets. This is usually not an author's job unless you are in a very
> small shop. (I don't actually know where "small" becomes "large" with
> respect to the dedicated stylesheet tipping point. We have 30 to 50 authors
> depending on how you count.)
>
> You didn't ask about cost, but while most people not in the know find
> Arbortext Editor expensive, most people not in the know swallow their
> tongues and never recover when they understand the Publishing Engine
> pricing. This is Enterprise Software. If you look closely at that S it's
> actually an $! LOL! It's very hard to get a straight answer without
> multiple conversations with PTC Sales (at least the last time I watched
> someone "new" to the environment try). But think of it as more of a top-end
> Porsche than a VW... (That's a terrible metaphor. Sorry!) Keep in mind,
> also, that both Editor and Publishing Engine are now subscription based.
> You never fully own those licenses anymore. Your XML is XML so you can
> theoretically take it anywhere, but ... if your stylesheets are Arbortext
> based, you will have some friction reproducing your PDF formatting if you
> pick up your XML and go somewhere else. Anyhow, my point is not that
> Arbortext is overpriced (although there are certainly competent smart
> people who maintain this is true ... if you google well, you might be able
> to find me and them arguing somewhere in time). My point is that it is like
> the difference between a $120 inkjet you might have at home and a $30,000
> printer/copier/scanner/fax machine you might find in your company's
> mail/kitchen/break rooms.
>
> You didn't ask about server management ... I alluded to it above, but if
> you are going to use Publishing Engine to make your PDFs, you will be
> standing up at least one server (plus DEV, plus QA, plus DR, depending on
> your company's philosophy about continuity). This might come with oversight
> from other divisions within your company (networking, storage, security,
> etc.), it might not. Again, depends on your company.
>
> Don't get me wrong: I really like the Arbortext products. (And, yeah, duh,
> I am biased.) Arbortext is a wicked powerful, massively customizable,
> highly capable, mature technology. It is not, however, something you should
> probably convert to from FrameMaker without a fully funded Project and a
> very, very clear understanding of the R and I in your ROI.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 6:48 AM Alan Houser <arh at groupwellesley.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I've seen this before. The sales staff at PTC (parent company of
> > Arbortext) are _very_ good. They reach exactly the right people, at the
> > right level in the organization, to make the sale. They are likely
> > selling Arbortext as a companion to PTC's other enterprise product data
> > management products (namely, Windchill). Writers are typically not
> > involved in the enterprise sale.
> >
> > I've seen organizations create and deliver effective documentation with
> > any number of tools, including Arbortext. For certain applications
> > (writing to MIL-Specs, for example), Arbortext will be substantially
> > easier out-of-the box than FrameMaker.
> >
> > Migrating structured FrameMaker content will be a big challenge.
> > Customer-specific EDDs and templates will be problematic. Although, in
> > fairness, Arbortext's formatting tools are far better than when FOSI
> > knowledge was a requirement. And it's probably a Good Thing from an
> > efficiency perspective to minimize or avoid customer-specific
> > customizations.
> >
> > This only tangentially addresses your questions, but I wanted to provide
> > some perspective about your situation.
> >
> > -Alan
> >
> >
> > On 11/19/18 7:33 PM, ROSS, Chris wrote:
> > > My company is thinking of changing from Framemaker to Arbortext. I have
> > been asked to attend a meeting, consisting mainly of managers and
> > accountants, to represent the Tech writing population.
> > > I have never used Arbortext before and am finding it very difficult to
> > download a trial version to make any viable comparison. I would
> appreciate
> > any input from other writers who have used Arbortext.
> > > Currently:
> > >
> > > * We use Frame for all our technical documentation and deliver
> > usually as PDF.
> > >
> > > * Use structured Framemaker 17.
> > >
> > > * Have EDDs and templates for each customer which can be
> modified
> > if required.
> > >
> > > * Use defence standards.
> > >
> > > * We use Sharepoint for our configuration management but have to
> > either Zip the frame files or PDF them to put them in Sharepoint.
> > >
> > > * All graphics are referenced and are in JPEG, TIFF, WMF or PNG.
> > >
> > > * Conditional text is often used.
> > > The main questions I have are:
> > >
> > > * Is Arbortex easy to use and intuitive?
> > >
> > > * Can Frame documents be imported into Arbortex easily and work?
> > >
> > > * How easy is it to create templates/EDDs (equivalent) in
> > Arbortext and modify them?
> > >
> > > * Can conditional text (or equivalent) be used in Arbortex?
> > >
> > > * Can JPEGs, TIFFs etc. be imported into Arbortex?
> > >
> > > * Are Arbortex and Sharepoint compatible?
> > >
> > > * Anything that Frame can do that Arbortex wont?
> > >
> > > I am very happy using Frame and would like any valid reason for not
> > changing over.
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris Ross
> > > Senior Technical Writer
> > > Sustainment and Engineering Solutions
> > > BAE Systems Australia
> > >
> > >
> > <snip>
> >
> > --
> > Alan Houser
> > Group Wellesley, Inc.
> > Consultant and Trainer, Technical Publishing
> > arh on Twitter
> > 412-450-0532
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
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>
> --
> Paul Nagai
> _______________________________________________
>
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