[Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8

Thu Apr 9 11:32:49 PDT 2020

My nostalgia goes further back!

As many of you might know there was another heavy-weight technical
publishing tool called Interleaf. I really liked it and had a much better
graphic tool when FrameMaker was not even able to create a "dotted line,"
but it practically disappeared by the mid-1990s. There might still be some
licenses floating around, especially with some defense contractors.

FrameMaker was coming strong in the early 1990s and Interleaf was losing
steam fairly rapidly. Why? Well, Interleaf started to dilly-dally on
customer service and won't pick phone calls if anyone had any problems with
installation or usage. It was a great software, but it failed to keep up
with customer demands. Sometimes I feel the same way about FrameMaker
today. Why doesn't the installation link always work? Why do you have to
spend hours on the phone with customer service to get it going? Why don't
they have user group meetings in the local high tech companies once in a
month as they did in the 1990s? It was great way to get real customer
feedback from people who are the actual users and front-line warriors. They
almost mishandled DITA and abdicated their responsibility to XML DITA, etc.
As a result, Adobe lost a significant market share to other vendors. In
spite of all that I have been a loyal user of FrameMaker for decades.

Anyway, I share with you a  cartoon in the form of two sumo wrestlers that
I asked a friend of mine Bill Bergman to make for me in 1992. Please enjoy.

Regards,

Tarlochan Nahal

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:19 PM <framers-request at lists.frameusers.com> wrote:

> Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers at lists.frameusers.com
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com You
> can reach the person managing the list at
> framers-owner at lists.frameusers.com When replying, please edit your
> Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers
> digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re:  Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight)
>    2. Re:  Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold)
>    3. Re:  Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Jerilynne Knight)
>    4. Re:  Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015 (Peter Gold)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:33:46 -0400
> From: Jerilynne Knight <jerilynne.knight at gmail.com>
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
>         <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015
> Message-ID:
>         <CA+h60BiK0c93dqh5AFKytW0b_hfy_J=
> kBdboCa0aTg-nc+xb7w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Oh wowser Mark...I forgot about the Gem environment! And I remember that
> DOS-based machine...had one of them!
>
> J
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:42 PM Mark Soiseth <mark.soiseth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. It
> > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I learned how
> > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based
> machines
> > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:01:22 -0500
> From: Peter Gold <peter at petergold.photography>
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
>         <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGoR+AjTF1O3Q198gSbAaArp7149imHuriuLp6SKZNPjw=
> aTmg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of us
> have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?"
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 1:41 PM Mark Soiseth <mark.soiseth at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I got a job with a company who used Ventura on the GEM environment. It
> > allowed me to shoot myself in the foot so easily. But, once I learned how
> > to apply the rules, etc., I was amazed. And this was on DOS-based
> machines
> > with a 8086 chip and only 640 kb of RAM.
> >
> > But, yes, Corel did not do it justice.
> >
> > On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 05:05, Jerilynne Knight <
> jerilynne.knight at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Bjorn...I didn't follow Ventura that far into present time,
> although I
> > > loved it when I learned it a Xerox. Once Corel took it over, I though I
> > was
> > > the only one who was both disappointed and disgusted with the poor job
> > they
> > > were doing!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM Studio Smalbro <studio at smalbro.dk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I followed Ventura all the way from the early versions on floppy
> disks
> > > > to the latest Corel Version 10.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > > Archives located at
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:13:42 -0400
> From: Jerilynne Knight <jerilynne.knight at gmail.com>
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
>         <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015
> Message-ID:
>         <CA+h60BhfQnHTJ8HASmtoEUjwzdpW=LEe6aQB6J=
> WreckSbfJ_A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold <peter at petergold.photography>
> wrote:
>
> > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of us
> > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?"
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:27:50 -0500
> From: Peter Gold <peter at petergold.photography>
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
>         <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Nostalgia - was Re: FrameMaker 2015
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGoR+Ag5ebCw=SJ=hbhUEfy6s+yY=iOscz=
> ecwMWSzW7+yYQZw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Dang autocorrect. Should have been "first-hand" not "first-have."
>
> Ok, I won't start your feet moving down that path. ;)
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 9:13 PM Jerilynne Knight <jerilynne.knight at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Oh lordy Peter, don't even get me started on that topic!!! lol
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:01 PM Peter Gold <peter at petergold.photography>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Corel's not the first company to have shot itself in the foot. Many of
> us
> > > have first-have experience. Oooops, should that be "first-foot?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> This daily digest is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Framers Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8
> ***************************************
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: FrameMaker vs. Interleaf 1992 Cartoon TNahal.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 239942 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers-frameusers.com/attachments/20200409/a715aa84/attachment.jpe>