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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>Thanks Frank. See responses inline. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Frank Stearns [mailto:franks@fsatools.com] <br>Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:29 PM<br>To: VLM TechSubs<br>Cc: 'Frank Stearns'; 'Framers'<br>Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "<Emphasis>Eisphora" <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> has this problem. It appears in the "correct" location alphabetically, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> it just looks like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> . . . . . . 1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> put in 100% of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> the like. FYI, the ToC works just fine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3. I just did the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.1 Shut Frame.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.2 Relaunched Frame.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.3 Opened book file.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked through those.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.6 Generated ToC and index.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.7 Saved all files in book.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.8 Opened index.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> compound marker (2 entries in one marker).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> document a few words away, and manually typed in the text for the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> then generate.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> #, and when I jump from that page number it takes me to the new marker <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> I just created.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> place, delete it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole process, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> same result.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> 3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> reopened from mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> Same result as before.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> Sigh ...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>> forgotten how to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>I know there's a way to do that, but can't recall it. We've always used a programmer's plain text editor -- even notepad or wordpad will work fine. Avoids trying to get Frame to play in a way it doesn't "want" to. :)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>This is all pretty nutty, that's for sure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>A few more random thoughts...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>1. The Word source still makes me cautious. If you highlight text to create a marker, or even were to use our IXgen tool to create markers, there can still be those nasty non-printing characters that would be picked up from body text and transferred into a new marker and cause problems.<br><br><span style='color:red'>Frank, you are correct, at least inasmuch as I've removed hundreds of nonprinting characters from these documents. But almost all were at the end of paragraphs, so whenever I've placed a marker at EOP, I've carefully removed any nonprinting characters that may have been present. </span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>1A. When you hand typed a marker, was the entry field completely clear? (Those non-printing chars can be insideous. Click next to one in the body that you can't see and the marker dialog autofill might pick it up, and you'd never know it.<br><br><span style='color:red'>Most of the time, I typed it all in character by character. At times, I did begin with a highlighted word or two. But many markers created in this way work fine, and some of the failing markers were definitely created by hand typing, from scratch. I suppose I could take this entire document set out to a text editor, do something there (not sure quite what), then bring it all back into FM and start from scratch. Ugh … but it’s a possibility.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>2. Forgot to verify the obvious: most of the markers are working correctly, and these are just isolated cases? Or, are you seeing the same thing happen any time you have an entry with a second level and/or font change?<br><br><span style='color:red'>Yes, majority of markers appear to be working fine. It happens on single, double, and triple level entries. It happens with or without a font change. </span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>3. Have you done a cold restart of your system? Shut it down completely, power supply switch OFF for a few minutes, then a reboot? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>I know, it's crazy, however....<br><br><span style='color:red'>Cold restart, yes, long enough to go to the grocery. :) Could do it again I suppose. I agree, crazy and however. :)</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='margin-top:0in;page-break-after:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";font-weight:normal'>4. In the IX file you generate, have you examined the reference pages that set up your entry formats? Are all the components there? Have you examined the entry para formats for anything odd? If you move the cursor through the entries in the main flow, do you notice if in the problem entries the para or char tag name suddenly becomes starred, indicating a deviation from the catalog settings?<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=HeadingRunIn align=center style='margin-top:0in;text-align:center;page-break-after:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=HeadingRunIn style='margin-top:0in;page-break-after:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";color:red;font-weight:normal'>From the reference page:<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";color:red'><br></span><span style='color:red;font-weight:normal'> 1, 2–3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:1.25in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:-.5in;page-break-after:auto'><span style='color:red;font-weight:normal'>Level4IOM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:19.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:-3.0pt;line-height:12.0pt;page-break-after:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:red;font-weight:normal'>Level3IOM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:12.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:-3.0pt;line-height:12.0pt;page-break-after:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:red;font-weight:normal'>Level2IOM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='text-align:justify'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>Symbols[\ ];Numerics[0];A;B;C;D;E;F;G;H;I;J;K;L;M;N;O;P;Q;R;S;T;U;V;W;X;Y;Z<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='margin-top:0in;text-align:justify;page-break-after:auto'><span style='color:red;font-weight:normal'><$symbols><$numerics><$alphabetics><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='margin-top:0in;text-align:justify'><span style='color:red;font-weight:normal'>-_–—<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='margin-top:0in;text-align:justify;line-height:11.0pt;page-break-after:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:red;font-weight:normal'>Level1IOM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='margin-top:0in;text-align:justify'><span style='color:red;font-weight:normal'>openObjectId <$relfilename>:<$ObjectType> <$ObjectId><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=HeadingRunIn style='margin-top:0in;line-height:11.0pt;page-break-after:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:red;font-weight:normal'> <$pagenum><o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";color:red'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif";color:red'>Moving the cursor through the entire main flow shows no paratag or chartag anomalies. On the reference page, however, such anomalies do appear. Could that mean something? I did find level 4 strange, as I did not intentionally create any 4-level entries. When I looked, I found that I typed a comma instead of a semicolon in exactly one marker. So that problem was easy to fix, I just haven’t removed the extra line from the reference page. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>Finally, I have a very fuzzy memory that FM8 had introduced some bugs in marker handling... Anyone else remember this? Do you have the lastest version of FM8?<br><br><span style='color:red'>I have version 8.0p266, and no memory WRT FM8 indexing bugs. <br><br>Frank, do you have or know of any special diagnostic tool(s) I might use here?</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>Continued good luck with it!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! *** <a href="mailto:franks@fsatools.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>franks@fsatools.com</span></a> <<a href="mailto:franks@fsatools.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>mailto:franks@fsatools.com</span></a>> TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada): 800-567-6421 USA Voice: 435-275-8981 <a href="http://www.fsatools.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://www.fsatools.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>