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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I'm going to disagree only with the
keyboard shortcuts comment -- they sort of fixed it is the most
generous comment I can make. If you were a dedicated keyboardist,
the "new" keyboard shortcut is slower than -- well molasses in
January. On first starting Frame you wait the first time on the
"blinking" menu to first appear -- several seconds. On subsequent
use of the keyboard shortcut, it's hit or miss. It appears that
the longer your paragraph format list is, the slower it is because
I don't have trouble with the Character catalog. And many times,
in the paragraph formatting, Frame flat doesn't recognize the
first letter of the format. It will stop on a totally different
letter forcing you to mouse the selection as subsequent taps of
the desired letter combination does not bring up the correct
format desired.<br>
<br>
For years I have carefully crafted my templates to take advantage
of those keyboard shortcuts. The loss was devastating. During the
time that they were missing entirely, someone on this list
mentioned alternative keyboard shortcuts which I have forgotten as
I always used F8 and F9 with the alphabet letter. I'm wondering if
that alternate route still works. <br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Linda Pelton<br>
<br>
On 3/30/2014 11:27 AM, Scott Prentice wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:533845EE.3020908@leximation.com" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Verdana">Aw .. c'mon ..
that's a bit harsh, don't you think?</font><br>
<br>
I'm not a fan of the "new" (since FM9) UI either, but personally
attacking the people behind the current product really isn't
fair. The current team developing FrameMaker *is* very
interested in customer feedback, and does listen. (And it's
certainly not the programmers' faults .. they implement the
features they are told to.)<br>
<br>
The new UI is a significant change from the old standard, but
can be tamed if you're willing to spend the time to learn how to
make it do what you want. There are training videos and other
info about setting up workspaces and other features, and with
FM12, they have fixed most of the missing keyboard shortcuts (I
believe). I totally agree that there are some frustrating
aspects to it, but that's the new world of UI design. If you
don't like it, stick with FM8. No one is forcing you to upgrade
(although they do encourage it).<br>
<br>
As for XML editors .. I think you'll find that XMetaL is
considerably lacking when compared to FM. Especially if you're
planning on generating PDFs .. you'll either need to take a step
back on your formatting and layout, or you'll still need to use
FM for PDF publishing. (But I am biased .. I'll admit that
freely.)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
...scott<br>
On 3/29/14 4:08 PM, Zimmerman, Gary wrote:<br>
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span.SpellE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-spl-e:yes;}
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{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-default-props:yes;
font-size:10.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 10]><style>/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
</style><![endif]--><!--[if mso 9]-->
<style>p.MsoNormal
{margin-left:3.0pt;}
</style><!--[endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:maroon"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
swear it's like the Adobe FrameMaker developers do
absolutely NO usability testing, get absolutely NO
feedback from existing customers, focus groups, or
anything else before they foist on us a crappy, untested
GUI that their offshore developers implemented in some
kind of cultural vacuum.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>(Not
offshore culture so much as programmer culture - before
any programmers get offended, there are plenty of
exceptional programmers who have a GREAT sense of
usability and customer needs - apparently Adobe hasn't
hired any for the FM team, nor any usability/human factors
consultants.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
programming underneath may be great (I doubt it, with the
general fragility of the thing for many releases now), but
the usability if off-the-charts bad.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span> Like something
designed by a bunch of college programmers who have no
concept of building a usable product, but instead think
"more is better" so they toss in everything figuring that
they'll have something for everyone, and end up with such
a hash salad that you spend more time jumping through GUI
hoops than you do productive writing.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>(Remember what
college kids did when word processors introduce lots of
fun fonts to play with - the FM 9 and 10 GUI is pretty
much the GUI equivalent of "ransom letter" tech writing.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
can remember when FM was unquestionably a better choice
than Word for any serious documentation work.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Now they're
approaching parity.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I
don't know about FM8, but when we jumped from 7 to 9, it
was all downhill after that.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>We're on 10 now, debating upgrading.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span> We're also moving to
a DITA CMS and <span class="SpellE">Xmetal</span> editor
- much less powerful, but it does what it needs to do
without being an obstacle to the writers.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>We didn't even
consider using FM as our XML editor, though the transition
might have been less of an issue for our writers who are
used to FM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sorry
to rant.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I LIKE
FM.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I'm just so
sorry they messed with the GUI and messed up so badly with
9 and onwards.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>They
may fix it to be decent again incrementally, but like
Windows 8, they should have scrapped the whole thing when
they realized what a horrible blunder they made instead of
turning a deaf ear and insisting everything was great for
so long, when real users knew it wasn't so.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Credibility gone.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Maybe 11 is better,
maybe 12 even better.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>
Don't know if I'll ever get to try them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">--
garyZ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:maroon"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:maroon"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com">framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com">mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rick Quatro<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'rebecca officer'; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com">framers@lists.frameusers.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: making stuff unconditional in
FM12<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Rebecca,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
see what you mean and agree that if you want to quickly
remove all conditions from a selection, it is painful.
They should put the Unconditional button back in, or
have a modifier key were you could uncheck everything
with one click.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rick
Quatro<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Carmen
Publishing Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">585-366-4017<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rick@frameexpert.com">rick@frameexpert.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-outline-level:1">
<b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com">framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com">mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>rebecca officer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 26, 2014 11:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com">framers@lists.frameusers.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> making stuff unconditional in FM12<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif"">Hi everyone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif"">I just went
looking for the "unconditional" button in the revamped
Conditional Tags pod in FM12. It ain't there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif"">Am I just being
blind? Or is there another one-or-two-click way to
make stuff unconditional?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif"">At the moment, it
looks like I either have to go the Copy Special route,
or manually untick all the tick boxes. To add insult
to injury, they go On > As Is > Off, so I have
to click each tickbox *twice* to clear it. Seriously,
Adobe??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif"">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif"">Rebecca<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""><br>
NOTICE: This message contains privileged and
confidential<br>
information intended only for the use of the addressee<br>
named above. If you are not the intended recipient of<br>
this message you are hereby notified that you must not<br>
disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it.<br>
If you have received this message in error please<br>
notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately.<br>
Any views expressed in this message are those of the<br>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to framers as <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sp10@leximation.com">sp10@leximation.com</a>.
Send list messages to <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com">framers@lists.frameusers.com</a>.
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to framers as <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lapelton@gmail.com">lapelton@gmail.com</a>.
Send list messages to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com">framers@lists.frameusers.com</a>.
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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or visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lapelton%40gmail.com">http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lapelton%40gmail.com</a>
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