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<DIV>Hi Gary</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When we moved to FM10, I complained on this list about conditional text crashes that sound exactly like yours, and an Adobe engineer got in touch. I sent them files and detailed bug reports and, long story short, they fixed it in FM11.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So yes, they are listening now, and if you can coax an upgrade out of your company, it's probably well worth it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Interested to hear you're doing a DITA conversion. We are too, but planning on using Frame 12 as our main editor.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
<DIV>Rebecca</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>>>> "Zimmerman, Gary" <Gary.Zimmerman@Teradata.com> 11/04/14 11:33 >>><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoPlainText><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="COLOR: maroon">I would be really happy to be completely wrong on this.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Now I'm just sorry my company probably won't upgrade from FM10 to 12 so I can see the improvements.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If they are listening and responding now (I don't think they were in the, perhaps distant, past), kudos to them.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="COLOR: maroon"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="COLOR: maroon">I would be thrilled, for example, if they addressed the fragility of the conditional text feature, an otherwise great strength of FM.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My site has been plagued with seemingly random, fairly frequent, work-losing FM crashes that mostly seem related to the application of the conditional text feature in structured FM documents.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Switching the conditional visibility to show all conditions or switch to showing a few initiates the crashes, and we suspect it is when the conditions are applied to <SPAN class=SpellE>pilcrows</SPAN>, end of doc mark, or various structure elements in such a way that hiding the condition makes an invalid document or affects the internals such that FM freaks out.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The experiences have made what was a really superb feature into a source of frustration, fear, and risk.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: maroon; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: maroon; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">The UI to me was a devolution after FM7, but I'm old and cranky.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I do use the Save/Restore Workspace to bring things back after everything seems to become littered here and there, especially working with two monitors, and occasionally remoting in from home where I use a large laptop with only one screen.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Still, I would prefer not to need to do that, though I appreciate that it's an option.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: maroon; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: maroon; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Perhaps our DITA conversion will go slower than expected (almost surely will) so maybe I'll get to experience FM 12 at some point before FM 15 is available.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Looking forward to being pleasantly surprised with the improvements and response to customer issues.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: maroon; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: maroon; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">-- garyZ<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: maroon; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>rebecca officer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 08, 2014 10:22 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Scott Prentice; framers@lists.frameusers.com; Keith Soltys<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: making stuff unconditional in FM12<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Hi everyone<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>First off, thanks to everyone who pointed out the Control+6 keyboard shortcut. 13 years of FM and I didn't know that one. It certainly beats the copy special route.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Second, Kapil Verma, the FM product manager, emailed me off-list to discuss the functionality, and let me know they'll be adding a button in the conditional text pod to make stuff unconditional. He also explained why the checkboxes behave like they do, and suggested an improvement. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>I'm very impressed at that level of response to my whinge - thanks, Adobe!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>I certainly find the pods an improvement on the old interface, so overall I'm happier with the new UI than the old. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Cheers<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Rebecca<BR><BR>>>> Keith Soltys <<A href="mailto:keith.soltys@tmx.com">keith.soltys@tmx.com</A>> 1/04/14 02:14 >>><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>I’m with Scott on this one. </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>I do have my gripes about some of the FM interface (I’m still using 10 but will upgrade to 12 as soon as WebWorks supports it), but in general, I’ve found the pods and tearaway catalogs useful. I use two monitors, one in portrait mode for my content, and one in landscape mode for all of the dialogs. Works well and keeps my working area clean. </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Adobe is paying a lot of attention to its users. I’ve had direct contact with the Adobe development team based on comments made here and in the Adobe forums – they are listening. Bear in mind that FrameMaker is not the only product Adobe sells and some of the changes made were to make FrameMaker more consistent with their other products. You may consider this approach misguided but it’s corporate policy and almost certainly beyond the control of the Adobe team.</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Regards</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Keith</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 5.0pt; mso-outline-level: 1" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com">framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com</A> [<A href="mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com">mailto:framers-bounces@lists.frameusers.com</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Scott Prentice<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com">framers@lists.frameusers.com</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: making stuff unconditional in FM12</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA>Aw .. c'mon .. that's a bit harsh, don't you think?</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><BR><BR>I'm not a fan of the "new" (since FM9) UI either, but personally attacking the people behind the current product really isn't fair. The current team developing FrameMaker *is* very interested in customer feedback, and does listen. (And it's certainly not the programmers' faults .. they implement the features they are told to.)<BR><BR>The new UI is a significant change from the old standard, but can be tamed if you're willing to spend the time to learn how to make it do what you want. There are training videos and other info about setting up workspaces and other features, and with FM12, they have fixed most of the missing keyboard shortcuts (I believe). I totally agree that there are some frustrating aspects to it, but that's the new world of UI design. If you don't like it, stick with FM8. No one is forcing you to upgrade (although they do encourage it).<BR><BR>As for XML editors .. I think you'll find that XMetaL is considerably lacking when compared to FM. Especially if you're planning on generating PDFs .. you'll either need to take a step back on your formatting and layout, or you'll still need to use FM for PDF publishing. (But I am biased .. I'll admit that freely.)<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>...scott<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><BR>NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail, including all materials contained in or attached to this e-mail, contains proprietary and confidential information solely for the internal use of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and ensure that it is permanently deleted from your systems, and do not print, copy, distribute or read its contents. <BR><BR>AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ Le présent courriel, y compris tous les documents qu'il contient ou qui y sont joints, renferme des renseignements exclusifs et confidentiels destinés uniquement à l'usage interne du destinataire prévu. Si vous avez reçu le présent courriel par erreur, veuillez nous aviser immédiatement, notamment par retour de courriel, et vous assurer qu'il est supprimé de façon permanente de vos systèmes; veuillez également vous abstenir d'imprimer, de copier, de distribuer ou de lire son contenu. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA" lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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