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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Fred, thanks for the links (see at the end of this post).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Separately to all: please pardon the long-winded OT stuff here! So, feel free to skip reading this …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Also, please pardon (or enjoy?), some comments/rants (below) from this old grouch. I was exploring the Adobe web site for fonts and documents and stuff today ... and got a bit frustrated. With the exception of the rant, I hope the comments are taken as constructive, rather than severe, criticism.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>RANDOM ... FONT BOOKS<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Although I am not a font geek per se (at least, I’d like to think so!), I don’t know too many bookshelves that have these in it ... mine does! :)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-Fonts/dp/1592407463/ref=la_B000APTXA8_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414200196&sr=1-1">http://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-Fonts/dp/1592407463/ref=la_B000APTXA8_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414200196&sr=1-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Type-Library-Reference-Book/dp/0321821254/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414200228&sr=1-1&keywords=Adobe+Type">http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Type-Library-Reference-Book/dp/0321821254/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414200228&sr=1-1&keywords=Adobe+Type</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The first one above, by the way, is an amusing read on fonts … it is not a reference like the second one.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>And I plan to get the following when I have a bit of time to read … during a vacation break perhaps:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Type-2nd-revised-expanded/dp/1568989695/ref=la_B001JRZFK8_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414209050&sr=1-1">http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Type-2nd-revised-expanded/dp/1568989695/ref=la_B001JRZFK8_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414209050&sr=1-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Version-Anniversary/dp/0881792128/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414208813&sr=1-1">http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Version-Anniversary/dp/0881792128/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414208813&sr=1-1</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>MY ADOBE FONTS<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>In the past, I have received Adobe fonts through Acrobat and FrameMaker upgrades, and also bought a few packages and fonts (Carta, Caslon Expert, Eurostile, Type Basics, Value Pack, and others). Also, some fonts were included in Adobe Type Manager for Windows 95 (I’m showing my age … eek!) and its upgrades.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>However, all of them were purchased in a Type 1 era … before True Type and Open Type formats came along. And, some fonts don’t work anymore – like the “dynamic” ones (Minion?) introduced in the last incarnation of ATM for Windows NT. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Over the years, I have settled on a much smaller set that I use most of the time for the few documents I work on … the others were novelties that wore off in the face of getting real work done. Not surprisingly, this small set are the ones that are well designed and/or classics that work well. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Some of my fonts are in Open Type now, since they came with Adobe software upgrades. So, I have new “versions” of Adobe Garamond Pro, Tekton Pro, Adobe Caslon Pro and a few others. Good! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>However, sometimes, upgrades include <i>different</i> font files ... the file dates change, the file sizes change, <i>sometimes</i> the font version number inside the font file changes … but <i>not</i> consistently. Indeed, I have seen <i>later</i> upgrades of FrameMaker or Acrobat include older versions of a font than an earlier upgrade of the other product (hope that made sense).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Probably, what I should do is go through the fonts I still use and see what the price tag would be for updates. I suspect it may still be much higher than I would like and since I don’t do much in FrameMaker anymore (am mostly using Word – for short new documents – and LaTeX with its default fonts – for longer new documents), it is not clear it would be <i>too</i> justifiable … for me. YMMV, of course.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>BTW, please don’t misunderstand me here – I am <i>not</i> upset about Adobe’s font pricing. Other folks charge too ... look at <a href="http://www.linotype.com">www.linotype.com</a> for examples. It is just a cost issue for me – YMMV.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>OTOH, I don’t think that font sales are a big part of Adobe revenue. So, I’d love to see Adobe do “version upgrades” for fonts (or even for older packages … like the Type Basics set) – that might be innovative vs. other font “sellers”. With web pages for font updates. Maybe it would help the font team at Adobe get a small revenue bump for their work. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>That way, for me, I could make it more of an impulse buy to get my fonts updated – or perhaps justify it more easily anyway – than at the moment. Wishful thinking on my part perhaps … since many fonts are included in the Creative Cloud stuff (as Adobe Typekit) now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Z<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>RANTS (to Adobe) <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Non-Adobe folks, please ignore and skip if you want.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><major rant #1 ><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Adobe has a brand-new web site. Very clean and shiny and new and lots of Good Stuff™ there, yes ... <i>if you are Creative Cloud centric!</i><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>BUT, IT IS TOUGH TO FIND INFORMATION ON FRAMEMAKER NOW! And, yes, I <i>am</i> SHOUTING here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>WTF, Adobe? Many of the “product listing” pages simply do not even mention FrameMaker (or TCS too, I suppose – I don’t have that). And only one link to “fonts” … that only goes to the Adobe Typekit … and that is part of Creative Cloud.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Links on the main Adobe page (like the link to “Desktop” <a href="http://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/catalog/desktop.html">http://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/catalog/desktop.html</a>) all go to Creative Cloud tools pages … where there is NO mention of FrameMaker, of course.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br>The “Menu” button in the upper right shows a pop-up where the “All Products” button goes to a page without <i>any</i> reference to FrameMaker (or TCS). But this new page has a link under a tiny word “Fonts” at the top of the page, which gets you to the right <i>Non-</i>Typekit place. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Okay, I would not expect a reference to FrameMaker on the “Mobile” link and related pages, but the assumption that the “Desktop” link should <i>not</i> include FrameMaker and TCS, etc., is a bit unacceptable. Heck, that page has “Acrobat XI Pro” and “ExtendScript Toolkit” listed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The bottom line point is that if I didn’t <i>already</i> know that FrameMaker was an Adobe product, I suspect that I’d <i>never</i> find it from the top pages and links at the site.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>So, my question to Adobe: Are you TRYING to kill the product? Maybe I should be glad that I have been taking a pre-emptive leap to LaTeX and Word.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'></rant #1><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><comment #2><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Many site links on FrameMaker pages go to <i>old</i> versions of documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The new versions of documents <i>do</i> exist for FM 12, but the links take you to the FM 11, FM10 and even some FM 9 versions of docs (rarely version 8). Sometimes, I get to a URL and simply edit the “9” or “10” or “11” in the URL of the document to a “12” … and Lo! The latest PDF version of the document shows up. So, the files <i>do</i> exist.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Links at the “FrameMaker Development Center” (<a href="http://www.adobe.com/devnet/framemaker.html">http://www.adobe.com/devnet/framemaker.html</a>) point to old versions too. See the link for “Scripting Guide” for example – goes to version 10, and the Reviewers Guide goes to FrameMaker 11 (although, at least, it <i>says</i> so.).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>In general, pages and links to older versions of documents and software (with one exception: the FM software updates page – and that isn’t great either) are a bit disorganized and difficult to navigate.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Many</span></i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> software companies <i>are</i> getting this job done correctly – with <i>clean</i> pages and links to old versions (listed everywhere properly), etc. Look at Altova, Cyberlink, and Xara for excellent examples of how to provide pages and links to old releases, new versions, old manuals, etc. Even Microsoft is cleaner and more consistent. Other small and large companies get it right. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br>Can somebody at Adobe, or on the Adobe FrameMaker team perhaps, take the time and effort to clean all/some of this up? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'></comment #2><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><comment #3><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The font listings at store1.adobe.com are not easy to search – the “Menu” button on any font page, only shows Creative Cloud and tool stuff – not back to a “Top” page for fonts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>So, unless you know the font name, or package name, or some basic info, it is time-consuming to click through links to see what <i>packages</i> of fonts are available (haven’t found a “Master” page on packages yet – it <i>probably</i> exists).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>For example, I found the “Adobe Helvetica Neue” page earlier today, but did not see the “Helvetica Std” page that Robert Lauriston and Fred Ridder found.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Another example, the link to “Adobe Caslon Pro” on Carol Twombly’s page: <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/type/font-designers/carol-twombly.html">http://www.adobe.com/products/type/font-designers/carol-twombly.html</a> takes you to the page for the old Adobe Caslon (Type 1) page: <a href="http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&event=displayFontPackage&code=180">http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&event=displayFontPackage&code=180</a> rather than <a href="http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?event=displayFontPackage&code=1712">http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?event=displayFontPackage&code=1712</a> … Either the link or the words on her page needs a change. FWIW, I suspect that her work was the original Type 1 Adobe Caslon rather than the Adobe Caslon Pro.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Anyway, Adobe, some cleanup needed here? Or are font sales simply too tiny to warrant the effort?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'></comment #3><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><comment #4><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Some FrameMaker documents are updated without a way to “know” this. I found more than a few examples of newer FM 12 documents that had changed from earlier this year, but I could not tell till after I downloaded and looked inside the PDF’s (with my wonderful comparison tool: Beyond Compare 4 from Scooter Software.). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>For example, the latest Frame 12 Help file (in PDF format) had changed considerably (with an entire new section on Structured FrameMaker), but I would not have known that till I checked.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Another example: the file “FRAMEMAKER12_GETTING_STARTED_GUIDE.PDF” is the <i>same</i> document as “FRAMEMAKER12_REVIEWERS_GUIDE.PDF” via the links at the top of FrameMaker page: <a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html">http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html</a> ... The link labelled “Getting Started Guide” under the heading “Getting Started Guide” points to one, and the link under the heading “Resources” points to the other.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Why have two names for the <i>same</i> file? And two links on the same main FrameMaker page to the different versions?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Some thought as to versioning documents (with dates in the external file names, or collected in a more central way, perhaps?) would be good …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'></comment #4><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Fred Ridder wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>Ø<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Adobe offers the Helvetica Std OpenType package (roman, oblique, bold, and bold oblique) for 5 users for $99.00, which might be a hand and a foot, but hardly an arm and a leg. <br>See </span><a href="http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&event=displayFontPackage&code=1424" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&event=displayFontPackage&code=1424</span></a><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <br>Of course, if you want the compressed, condensed, light, and black variants, it starts adding up at $29 each, and the Full Family package Robert mentioned starts looking better at its $360 price rather than $522 for 18 individual fonts.<br><br>If you can live without the semibold weight of Caslon, you might want to look at the "Type Basics" OpenType package, which includes the four basic variants of the Caslon face, along with 61 other fonts for $99.00 (5 user license). See </span><a href="http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&event=displayFontPackage&code=1902" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>http://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&event=displayFontPackage&code=1902</span></a><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> . The Caslon Pro package with all six variants of the face is $135.00 without the 61 other fonts, which are actually pretty intelligently chosen. <br><br>But it seems to me that one advantage of the Adobe type store is that you can buy and download just the variants that you actually need to use, since the discount for most of the family bundles ranges between 14% for small bundles to 31% for the Helvetica Full Family bundle. And then there are the "loss-leader" bundles like the "Type Basics" package, which would cost over $2000 at the full individual prices. <br><br>-Fred Ridder<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>