Who should do the proofing?
Rob Shell
rshell at iafrica.com
Fri Dec 15 23:51:32 PST 2006
In publishing terms (old style, pre-PC), the final proofing had to be done
by the author, but this used to be done jointly in three stages, first the
galleys, second, the page proofs and finally the index. The typesetter also
proofed all the copy and of course, the copy editors did their bit. If there
was a disagreement, then only dedicated correspondence (snail mail) could
solve the problem. The psychology was different as the tempo was slow.
An example which comes to mind was the name "Hermann" which appeared in my
text. The copyeditor took out the second "n" and I restored it. The
typesetter then took out the second "n" again for the page proofs, and I
once again restored it, this time providing documentary proof of the
correct spelling. Thus everyone in the chain has a primary responsibility of
proofreading but the author must have the final say.
Author burn-out was not a problem as there was usually a fairly long period
between submission and galleys and then another, shorter period between
galleys and page proofs. The author would be quite keen to get back to work
and check everything.
As an academic author in the desktop world, I find that proofing has become
sloppy with many refereed journals having many typos, as sometimes (mostly?)
the galley and page proof stages are bypassed with everyone relying on
spellcheckers and little else.
As I read a lot of history in eighteenth and nineteenth century editions I
am full of admiration for the work done then and the obvious care which all
parties took in their respective responsibilities.
The fantastic technology which we now have at our disposal has not been
accompanied by that commitment from all parties to do their bit. More
authors will probably try to go it on their own.
Sad.
Robert C.-H. Shell
Extraordinary Professor of Historical Demography
UWC
Courier address:
Room 3,23
Statistics department
New Science Building
University of Western Cape
Modderdam Road
Bellville
7535
Western Cape
Republic of South Africa
Airmail address:
Prof. Robert C.-H. Shell
Room 3,23
Statistics department
New Science Building
Private Bag X17
Bellville
Western Cape 7535
Republic of South Africa
E-mail addresses:
rshell at uwc.ac.za
rshell at iafrica.com
Fax: 950-2909
----- Original Message -----
From: <framers-request at lists.frameusers.com>
To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> Send Framers mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Heading rows overridden in table (Rick Quatro)
> 2. RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker (Mike Feimster)
> 3. word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared.
> i'm stumped. (Cybele Knowles)
> 4. OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? (Natalie Bircher)
> 5. Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? (Art Campbell)
> 6. Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? (Rick Quatro)
> 7. Re: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
> shared. i'mstumped. (Rick Quatro)
> 8. Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> (d.mossfritch at comcast.net)
> 9. RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? (John Sgammato)
> 10. Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? (Art Campbell)
> 11. RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? (Ridder, Fred)
> 12. RE: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
> shared.i'mstumped. (Ridder, Fred)
> 13. Re: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
> shared. i'm stumped. (Brad Anderson)
> 14. RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing? (Natalie Bircher)
> 15. RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15)
> (Torralba, Jing)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:24:20 -0500
> From: "Rick Quatro" <frameexpert at truevine.net>
> Subject: Re: Heading rows overridden in table
> To: "Susan Nishi" <snishi at seon.com>, <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <001f01c72043$f2909dd0$4217414a at CARMENOFFICE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Susan,
>
> Follow these steps:
>
> 1) Insert a new table into the FrameMaker document. Apply the correct
> format
> to each cell of the first header row, the first body row, and first footer
> row (if you have one). Resize the columns to how you would normally want
> them.
>
> 2) Choose Table > Table Designer. Click the Update All button.
>
> 3) Repeat these steps for all of your table formats.
>
> Now when you insert a table, it should have the correct formats.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing
> 585-659-8267
> www.frameexpert.com
>
>
> Whenever I insert a new table into my Frame document, the heading row
> for the table is overridden.
>
>
>
> Table heading has been assigned a Table heading designation in the
> Paragraph catalog of Th whereas the table shows up with Table Heading.
> Table Heading (TH) doesn't appear in the paragraph catalog so I can't
> delete it. Does anyone know how to fix this?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Susan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:12:30 -0500
> From: "Mike Feimster" <mike.feimster at acstechnologies.com>
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker
> To: "Gillian Flato" <gflato at nanometrics.com>, "framers"
> <framers at frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <FD4F843837B2B4409811EA15A1DA443901D0E251 at AXCVS.ACS.TECH>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>So the question is, which English do we standardize on?
>
> I would ask some combination of marketing, product management, and
> support to decide. Eventually it comes down to maximizing revenue and
> reducing support costs.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:27:54 -0700
> From: "Cybele Knowles" <knowles at meteoritics.org>
> Subject: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared.
> i'm stumped.
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <200612151728.kBFHRuNO020838 at packrat.aml.arizona.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling with
> this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the word
> spacing
> in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes
> (orphans
> and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a file I
> last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word spacing do
> not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User X
> opens
> a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last saved by
> User
> X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We do not
> see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or more
> paragraphs.
>
>
>
> We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
> Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
> understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
> custom or default.
>
>
>
> Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated, and
> wasting
> a lot of time checking changing document layouts.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cybele Knowles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:29:44 -0600
> From: "Natalie Bircher" <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>
> Subject: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <96B059610528E840BD47F5819575D9E642DA16 at dhsmnnt9.dhsnet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
> writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
> documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Natalie Bircher
>
> Documentation Specialist
>
> Dairyland Healthcare Solutions
>
> Phone: 320-634-3841
>
> Fax: 320-634-1349
>
> Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com
>
>
>
> This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended
> recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to
> the sender immediately and delete this communication.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:59:03 -0500
> From: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: "Natalie Bircher" <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Message-ID:
> <c7d9dd600612151159p113ac335sef63d182cf08f80d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
> a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
> and grammar skills.
>
> If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
> the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
> it with fresh eyes.
>
> But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
> grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com> wrote:
>> This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
>> writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
>> documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Art Campbell
> art.campbell at gmail.com
> "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
> and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
> No disclaimers apply.
> DoD 358
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:08:01 -0500
> From: "Rick Quatro" <frameexpert at truevine.net>
> Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: "Natalie Bircher" <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>,
> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <051201c72084$b9658ac0$4217414a at CARMENOFFICE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Natalie,
>
> It is bad practice for a writer or typesetter to proofread their own work.
> I
> worked at one shop where you would get fired for doing so. You always
> handed
> the document off to a professional staff proofreader.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing
> 585-659-8267
> www.frameexpert.com
>
> This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
> writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
> documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>
>
> Natalie Bircher
>
> Documentation Specialist
>
> Dairyland Healthcare Solutions
>
> Phone: 320-634-3841
>
> Fax: 320-634-1349
>
> Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:09:02 -0500
> From: "Rick Quatro" <frameexpert at truevine.net>
> Subject: Re: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
> shared. i'mstumped.
> To: "Cybele Knowles" <knowles at meteoritics.org>,
> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <051701c72084$de0db280$4217414a at CARMENOFFICE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Do you or your coworker get any "Unavailable language" or "Unavailable
> font"
> messages when you open the document?
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing
> 585-659-8267
> www.frameexpert.com
>
>> My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling with
>> this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the word
>> spacing
>> in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes
>> (orphans
>> and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a file
>> I
>> last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word spacing do
>> not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User X
>> opens
>> a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last saved by
>> User
>> X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We do
>> not
>> see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or more
>> paragraphs.
>>
>>
>>
>> We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
>> Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
>> understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
>> custom or default.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated, and
>> wasting
>> a lot of time checking changing document layouts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Cybele Knowles
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:19:27 +0000
> From: d.mossfritch at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>, "Natalie Bircher"
> <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Message-ID:
> <121520062019.7243.4583034F000837C200001C4B2206813153080C9B079D009C9C0103D20B at comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Good Day Art and Natalie,
>
> If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
> problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
> procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
> lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure
> of documents.
>
> A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
> contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert
> had missed was the description of the software application was backwards
> of the application's actual purpose and operation.
>
> Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of
> that proofing.
>
> Best,
>
> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>
>
>> In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
>> a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
>> and grammar skills.
>>
>> If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
>> the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
>> it with fresh eyes.
>>
>> But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
>> grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote:
>> > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
>> > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
>> > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:25:22 -0500
> From: "John Sgammato" <jsgammato at IMPRIVATA.com>
> Subject: RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: "Natalie Bircher" <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>,
> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <8E0B2788ADE5A14195D29CF5C43E81A37C1E52 at mamail01.IMPRIVATA.COM>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am a lone writer, so I am ultimately responsible for the docs. I have no
> editor, proofreader, or any suport whatever. I try to get someone from QA
> to go over everything, but that seldom happens. Even when it does, I go
> over it myself.
>
> The problem is that a non-writer can get quite exhausted and careless or
> resentful looking at every character, while a trained writer can skim a
> lot and focus on the places most likely to have problems. When you are
> responsible for 14 books and 6 online helps and a bunch of small end-user
> documents and other auxiliary docs, it really is quicker for the writer to
> do it, if s/he can develop the discipline.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: framers-bounces+jsgammato=imprivata.com at lists.frameusers.com on
> behalf of Natalie Bircher
> Sent: Fri 12/15/2006 2:29 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
>
>
>
> This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
> writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
> documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Natalie Bircher
>
> Documentation Specialist
>
> Dairyland Healthcare Solutions
>
> Phone: 320-634-3841
>
> Fax: 320-634-1349
>
> Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com
>
>
>
> This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended
> recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to
> the sender immediately and delete this communication.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:17:57 -0500
> From: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: "d.mossfritch at comcast.net" <d.mossfritch at comcast.net>
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com, Natalie Bircher
> <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>
> Message-ID:
> <c7d9dd600612151317u2672fb1bg525998256bb685c7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Denise,
>
> I don't totally disagree with your contention, but proofreading is one
> thing... and content / structural editing, fact-checking, and quality
> assurance, the topics that you touch upon are something else. I'm
> intentionally defining "proofreading" in a narrow, traditional way.
>
> The problems that you related are much more basic and mechanical...
> they should all be resolved before proofreading takes place, IMHO.
> Making sure the quality is built in is a continuous process that needs
> attention from the beginning of the project; you can't do it at the
> last minute.
>
> Cheers,
> Art
>
> On 12/15/06, d.mossfritch at comcast.net <d.mossfritch at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Good Day Art and Natalie,
>>
>> If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
>> problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
>> procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
>> lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure
>> of
>> documents.
>>
>> A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
>> contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the
>> expert
>> had missed was the description of the software application was backwards
>> of
>> the application's actual purpose and operation.
>>
>> Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of
>> that
>> proofing.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>
>>
>> > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
>> > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
>> > and grammar skills.
>> >
>> > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
>> > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
>> > it with fresh eyes.
>> >
>> > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
>> > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.
>> >
>> > Art
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote:
>> > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
>> > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofin g of the
>> > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>>
>
>
> --
> Art Campbell
> art.campbell at gmail.com
> "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
> and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
> No disclaimers apply.
> DoD 358
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:31:05 -0500
> From: "Ridder, Fred" <fred.ridder at intel.com>
> Subject: RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: <d.mossfritch at comcast.net>, "Art Campbell"
> <art.campbell at gmail.com>, "Natalie Bircher"
> <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Message-ID:
> <FB317E6321E6824BA3826CF0FA2FD580B84A7C at hdsmsx412.amr.corp.intel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> What you have described is much deeper than what I
> would call proofreading. I would put some it under the
> heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get
> sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and
> most of it under editing (which really has several of its
> own subcategories).
>
> No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes
> of errors and issues. And if the number of different people
> available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited,
> you'll still get better results if those people do multiple
> passes through the document with a limited scope for
> each pass.
>
> My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
> Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
> Intel
> Parsippany, NJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of d.mossfritch at comcast.net
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM
> To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
>
> Good Day Art and Natalie,
>
> If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
> problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
> procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
> lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure
> of documents.
>
> A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
> contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the
> expert had missed was the description of the software application was
> backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation.
>
> Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of
> that proofing.
>
> Best,
>
> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>
>
>> In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
>
>> a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
>
>> and grammar skills.
>>
>> If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
>> the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
>> it with fresh eyes.
>>
>> But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
>> grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote:
>> > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
>> > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
>> > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as fred.ridder at intel.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/fred.ridder%40intel.
> com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:07:28 -0500
> From: "Ridder, Fred" <fred.ridder at intel.com>
> Subject: RE: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
> shared.i'mstumped.
> To: "Cybele Knowles" <knowles at meteoritics.org>,
> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <FB317E6321E6824BA3826CF0FA2FD580B84AA2 at hdsmsx412.amr.corp.intel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Assuming that you are not getting any "Unavailable font" messages
> as Rick has suggested, there are a couple of other things to consider.
>
> What do each of you have set as your default printer? On Windows
> platforms the font metrics (the precise dimensions of every glyph and
> space that is produced in your text) come from the printer driver, and
> there are subtle (or not so subtle) differences in the font metrics
> whenever different printer drivers are being used. One way around this
> is to use the SetPrint plug-in from Sundorne Communications, which
> allows you to set a FrameMaker default printer completely
> independently of the Windows default printer. This way, both of you
> can use the same printer driver within FrameMaker (e.g. the Adobe
> PDF printer driver if you normally produce PDF deliverables) even if
> your systems have different physical printers available to them.
>
> And once you're using the same printer driver, you should check to
> see whether you are both using the same setting for the
> DisplayUsingPrinterMetrics setting in your maker.ini files. I would
> recommend that you set this option to On rather than the default Off.
> (Remember to edit maker.ini only when FrameMaker is not running.)
>
> My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
> Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
> Staff Information Services Analyst
> Intel
> Parsippany, NJ
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of Rick Quatro
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:09 PM
> To: Cybele Knowles; framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
> shared.i'mstumped.
>
> Do you or your coworker get any "Unavailable language" or "Unavailable
> font"
> messages when you open the document?
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing
> 585-659-8267
> www.frameexpert.com
>
>> My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling
> with
>> this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the word
>> spacing
>> in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes
>> (orphans
>> and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a
> file I
>> last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word spacing
> do
>> not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User X
>> opens
>> a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last saved
> by
>> User
>> X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We do
> not
>> see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or
> more
>> paragraphs.
>>
>>
>>
>> We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
>> Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
>> understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
>> custom or default.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated, and
>> wasting
>> a lot of time checking changing document layouts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Cybele Knowles
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as fred.ridder at intel.com.
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> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:53:13 -0600
> From: Brad Anderson <brad at frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
> shared. i'm stumped.
> To: Cybele Knowles <knowles at meteoritics.org>
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Message-ID: <CE338EB7-FE3E-4D35-BBDF-62BFF09326F4 at frameusers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Cybele,
>
> This is most likely due to different fonts being used on the two
> separate machines. It is most likely due to you each printing to a
> different printer using a different driver. Try closing out of
> FrameMaker on both machines, set Adobe PDF/Distiller as your default
> printer. Open Frame along with the document on both machines and
> verify that the spacing is no longer changing.
>
> It is also possible that a setting in your maker.ini file is
> different and one of you is using screen metrics and the other
> printer metrics.
>
> Let me know how the first test goes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Cybele Knowles wrote:
>
>> My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling
>> with
>> this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the
>> word spacing
>> in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes
>> (orphans
>> and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a
>> file I
>> last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word
>> spacing do
>> not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User
>> X opens
>> a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last
>> saved by User
>> X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We
>> do not
>> see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or
>> more
>> paragraphs.
>>
>>
>>
>> We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
>> Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
>> understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
>> custom or default.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated,
>> and wasting
>> a lot of time checking changing document layouts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Cybele Knowles
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:54:42 -0600
> From: "Natalie Bircher" <natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com>
> Subject: RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
> To: "Ridder, Fred" <fred.ridder at intel.com>,
> <d.mossfritch at comcast.net>, "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Message-ID:
> <96B059610528E840BD47F5819575D9E642DA7E at dhsmnnt9.dhsnet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Fred, I agree with your philosophy.
>
> Of course we all try to do our best to write it right the first time,
> but things will escape us, and there will always be "better choices"
> that could be made (such as a more common example).
>
> The writer should definitely do a spell check and re-read what they have
> written to look for best word usage/punctuation/capitalization issues.
> Also check for spacing and graphics issues.
>
> We will probably agree that SMEs should be available to check for
> content and usage. In our company, the trainer determines the order of
> the topics, so they would check that. I would also maintain that other
> English-major-types look at the doc for structure, consistency of style
> and format and double-check for punctuation, spelling and
> capitalization.
>
> It seems that the only time anyone here disagrees with this, is when an
> error slips through. Then out comes the tar and feathers for the
> writer...never for the other FIVE people who looked at it.
>
> ?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ridder, Fred [mailto:fred.ridder at intel.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM
> To: d.mossfritch at comcast.net; Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
>
> What you have described is much deeper than what I
> would call proofreading. I would put some it under the
> heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get
> sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and
> most of it under editing (which really has several of its
> own subcategories).
>
> No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes
> of errors and issues. And if the number of different people
> available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited,
> you'll still get better results if those people do multiple
> passes through the document with a limited scope for
> each pass.
>
> My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
> Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
> Intel
> Parsippany, NJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of d.mossfritch at comcast.net
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM
> To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?
>
> Good Day Art and Natalie,
>
> If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
> problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
> procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
> lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure
> of documents.
>
> A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
> contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the
> expert had missed was the description of the software application was
> backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation.
>
> Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of
> that proofing.
>
> Best,
>
> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Art Campbell" <art.campbell at gmail.com>
>
>> In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
>
>> a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
>
>> and grammar skills.
>>
>> If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
>> the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
>> it with fresh eyes.
>>
>> But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
>> grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote:
>> > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
>> > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
>> > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as fred.ridder at intel.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:00:13 -0800
> From: "Torralba, Jing" <jtorralba at saratogasystems.com>
> Subject: RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15)
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <AC79AFB0229F9F4D924A56588D66336B02EDF9EE at ssiexchange2k3.ssi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> To all who gave their ideas on Unlocking Pgf Locked, thanks. Richard Combs
> unlocked the secret!
>
> Jing Torralba
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+jtorralba=saratogasystems.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+jtorralba=saratogasystems.com at lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of framers-request at lists.frameusers.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:01 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15
>
> Send Framers mailing list submissions to
> framers at lists.frameusers.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/listinfo/framers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Framers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. checking location of graphics (Karen Mardahl)
> 2. Re: checking location of graphics (Rick Quatro)
> 3. Re: Searching in text insets (Shmuel Wolfson)
> 4. Difference between us and international english Framemaker
> (Andersen, Verner Engell VEA)
> 5. Re: DTD graphic tool? (Wolfgang K?hn)
> 6. RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker (Phil Heron)
> 7. RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker (Gillian Flato)
> 8. RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker (Steve Rickaby)
> 9. RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker (Mark Southee)
> 10. RE: Cross reference keyboard shortcut (Conole, David (SNL US))
> 11. RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked" (Combs, Richard)
> 12. RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked" (Steve Rickaby)
> 13. RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked" (Combs, Richard)
> 14. RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker (hedley.finger at myob.com)
> 15. Heading rows overridden in table (Susan Nishi)
> 16. RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
> (Torralba, Jing)
> 17. Re: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
> (Peter Gold)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:02:10 +0100
> From: "Karen Mardahl" <k.mardahl at gmail.com>
> Subject: checking location of graphics
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Message-ID:
> <60e0e50d0612140202i755deb36h3b3bd556cf7c92f5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi
>
> How can I be sure that a linked graphic is where it is supposed to be?
> I just had a situation where the reviewer of my doc had trouble because
> the graphic wasn't where it was supposed to be for him.
>
> Under Edit > Links, the particular graphic is shown in the window as
>
> ...\<filename>.vsd with Type Visio and Update Automatic
>
> For source, it states
>
> \\server\...\Graphics\<filename>.vsd
>
> The path is a bit long, so I get three dots instead of the full path.
> Policy is to have all graphics in a folder called Graphics, so everything
> looks great to me. I will never see a problem because I only use the one
> server. The fastest way to determine whether the location is truly
> correct, is to click Change Source and open the Look in drop-down menu.
> Only then can I see something is wrong. With 69 graphics, this procedure
> is a pain. Other docs have twice as many. The dialog box cannot be
> widened.
>
> How can I easily check that locations are correct as a part of my
> preparing-for-review process? I just had a case where the graphic was
> recycled. A copy of the graphic was in the correct, new folder, but my
> pointer was to the original in another location. This could be disastrous
> if I made any updates to the graphic. I'd be updating the wrong one and
> not know it. During review, the person doing a new build of the document
> in FM ran into big trouble. The other folder I was using (unknowingly) is
> in Denmark. He is in California. Framemaker hung for ages. At least we got
> an error message, and I could track down the miscreant, but this happens
> at a time when time is at a premium (of course). I know about
> http://home.comcast.net/~bruce.foster/Archive.htm, but I want to know the
> status before taking that step. I have FrameScript if someone thinks that
> is the route to go. A List of References doesn't work, because these are
> .vsd files imported as objects.
>
> Thanks.
>
> regards, Karen Mardahl
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:16:14 -0500
> From: "Rick Quatro" <frameexpert at truevine.net>
> Subject: Re: checking location of graphics
> To: "Karen Mardahl" <k.mardahl at gmail.com>,
> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <000b01c71f79$a67926d0$4217414a at CARMENOFFICE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Hi Karen,
>
> Unfortunately, FrameScript won't help because it "sees" imported OLE
> objects as if they were imported by copy. In other words, FrameScript (or
> the FDK) cannot determine the path to an OLE object.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing
> 585-659-8267
> www.frameexpert.com
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>> How can I be sure that a linked graphic is where it is supposed to be?
>> I just had a situation where the reviewer of my doc had trouble
>> because the graphic wasn't where it was supposed to be for him.
>>
>> Under Edit > Links, the particular graphic is shown in the window as
>>
>> ...\<filename>.vsd with Type Visio and Update Automatic
>>
>> For source, it states
>>
>> \\server\...\Graphics\<filename>.vsd
>>
>> The path is a bit long, so I get three dots instead of the full path.
>> Policy is to have all graphics in a folder called Graphics, so
>> everything looks great to me. I will never see a problem because I
>> only use the one server. The fastest way to determine whether the
>> location is truly correct, is to click Change Source and open the Look
>> in drop-down menu. Only then can I see something is wrong. With 69
>> graphics, this procedure is a pain. Other docs have twice as many. The
>> dialog box cannot be widened.
>>
>> How can I easily check that locations are correct as a part of my
>> preparing-for-review process? I just had a case where the graphic was
>> recycled. A copy of the graphic was in the correct, new folder, but my
>> pointer was to the original in another location. This could be
>> disastrous if I made any updates to the graphic. I'd be updating the
>> wrong one and not know it. During review, the person doing a new build
>> of the document in FM ran into big trouble. The other folder I was
>> using (unknowingly) is in Denmark. He is in California. Framemaker
>> hung for ages. At least we got an error message, and I could track
>> down the miscreant, but this happens at a time when time is at a
>> premium (of course). I know about
>> http://home.comcast.net/~bruce.foster/Archive.htm, but I want to know
>> the status before taking that step. I have FrameScript if someone
>> thinks that is the route to go. A List of References doesn't work,
>> because these are .vsd files imported as objects.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> regards, Karen Mardahl
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:03:32 +0200
> From: Shmuel Wolfson <sbw at actcom.com>
> Subject: Re: Searching in text insets
> To: Whites <whitefamily at mac.com>, Framers
> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <45814BA4.4060304 at actcom.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> You could always make a PDF and search the PDF.
>
> Regards,
> Shmuel Wolfson
>
>
>
> Whites wrote:
>> Today, from within the main document, I searched on a string in a text
>> inset and was surprised to find that the FM search function did not
>> find it.
>> Am I being obtuse (happens a lot) or is this the way things are
>> supposed to be?
>> Any help will be appreciated.
>>
>> will white
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Hah! Attempted murder? Now honestly, what is that?
>> Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?
>> Do they? - Sideshow Bob
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to Framers as sbw at actcom.com.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email
>> toframers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sbw%40actcom.com
>>
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:20:42 +0100
> From: "Andersen, Verner Engell VEA" <verner.andersen at radiometer.dk>
> Subject: Difference between us and international english Framemaker
> To: <Framers at FrameUsers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <FD738D92925FDD4183417FCAE6660D76884BF5 at dhreinsvxb03.messaging.danaherad.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"
>
>
> All
> Is there a difference between International and US Framemaker. My manager
> has bought the International version of FrameMaker for me.
>
> Our corporate language is US English.
>
> Verner Andersen
> Technical Writer
>
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> +AMU-kandevej 21 +Jc8- 2700 Br+APg-nsh+APg-j +Jc8- Denmark
> Tel. +-45 38 27 36 12
> Mobile. +- 45 60 62 27 90
> E-mail: verner.andersen+AEA-radiometer.dk
> Web: www.radiometer.com
>
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential and/or
> proprietary information intended only for the addressee.
> Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on the
> contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may constitute a
> violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
> the sender immediately by responding to this e-mail, and delete the
> message from your system. If you have any questions about this e-mail
> please notify the sender immediately.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:50:42 +0100 (MET)
> From: Wolfgang K?hn <w.kuehn at wcr.de>
> Subject: Re: DTD graphic tool?
> To: FrameUserList English <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <4580E632.2060004 at wcr.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Art,
>
> the one-and-only tool for this work is TreeVision
> (http://www.ovidius.com/).
> Go and see for yourself in the test-version of it.
>
> Regards
> WoK
>
>
>
> Art Campbell schrieb:
>> Has anyone run across a tool that can represent, graphically, the
>> nesting of levels of elements and sub-elements within a DTD file? It
>> doesn't need to provide editing capability, although that would be
>> nice -- I'm looking more for a nice graphic.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Art
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:29:40 -0000
> From: "Phil Heron" <Phil.Heron at CODA.com>
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker
> To: "framers" <framers at frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <12B7F2402998674E89AC7643173C46AD03A0B436 at mx-har-coda3.coda.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Verner,
>
> I believe my copy of FramMaker is the International English one.
>
> When you install it you see a dialog asking you to choose between US
> English or International English. I guess you wouldn't see this dialog if
> you had a US-only version.
>
> Choosing International English installs A4 versions of the custom
> templates. I don't think there's any other difference.
>
> (One extra step I take after installing is to change the "Language"
> setting in maker.ini from USEnglish to UKEnglish - this sets UK English as
> the default language in the designers.)
>
>
> _____________________________
> Phil Heron
> CODA Group International Ltd
> Tel +44 (0)1423 509999
> __________________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+phil.heron=coda.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+phil.heron=coda.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
> Sent: 14 December 2006 07:21
> To: Framers at FrameUsers.com
> Subject: Difference between us and international english Framemaker
>
>
> All
> Is there a difference between International and US Framemaker. My manager
> has bought the International version of FrameMaker for me.
>
> Our corporate language is US English.
>
> Verner Andersen
> Technical Writer
>
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> Ã...kandevej 21 â- 2700 Brønshøj â- Denmark
> Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
> Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
> E-mail: verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
> Web: www.radiometer.com
>
>
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential and/or
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> please notify the sender immediately.
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>
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>
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> responsibility for changes to any email which occur after the email has
> been sent. Attachments to this email may contain software viruses, which
> could damage your systems. CODA has checked the attachments for viruses
> before sending, but you should virus-check them before opening
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:49:05 -0800
> From: "Gillian Flato" <gflato at nanometrics.com>
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker
> To: "Phil Heron" <Phil.Heron at CODA.com>, "framers"
> <framers at frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <2C1C13BEFF79124985E37DB5591C801A02014692 at mil-mail03.nanometrics.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> This brings up a topic that will affect us soon. My company just merged
> with a company on England. They write their manuals the English way (i.e.
> colour, theatre etc.) and we write the American way (color, theater). In
> 2007, I will be working on a project with them so the docset will be split
> up between their local tech writer and me.
>
> So the question is, which English do we standardize on?
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Gillian Flato
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+gflato=nanometrics.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+gflato=nanometrics.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of Phil Heron
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:30 AM
> To: framers
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english Framemaker
>
>
> Verner,
>
> I believe my copy of FramMaker is the International English one.
>
> When you install it you see a dialog asking you to choose between US
> English or International English. I guess you wouldn't see this dialog if
> you had a US-only version.
>
> Choosing International English installs A4 versions of the custom
> templates. I don't think there's any other difference.
>
> (One extra step I take after installing is to change the "Language"
> setting in maker.ini from USEnglish to UKEnglish - this sets UK English as
> the default language in the designers.)
>
>
> _____________________________
> Phil Heron
> CODA Group International Ltd
> Tel +44 (0)1423 509999
> __________________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+phil.heron=coda.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+phil.heron=coda.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
> Sent: 14 December 2006 07:21
> To: Framers at FrameUsers.com
> Subject: Difference between us and international english Framemaker
>
>
> All
> Is there a difference between International and US Framemaker. My manager
> has bought the International version of FrameMaker for me.
>
> Our corporate language is US English.
>
> Verner Andersen
> Technical Writer
>
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> Ã...kandevej 21 â- 2700 Brønshøj â- Denmark
> Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
> Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
> E-mail: verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
> Web: www.radiometer.com
>
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential and/or
> proprietary information intended only for the addressee.
> Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on the
> contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may constitute a
> violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
> the sender immediately by responding to this e-mail, and delete the
> message from your system. If you have any questions about this e-mail
> please notify the sender immediately.
>
>
> Using spreadsheets for group consolidation and reporting?
> Report faster and eliminate spreadsheet errors with CODA's consolidation
> system, OCRA. Click here for more
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. It may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the
> addressee. If you receive this message in error, please advise us
> immediately.
>
> Internet emails are not necessarily secure. CODA does not accept
> responsibility for changes to any email which occur after the email has
> been sent. Attachments to this email may contain software viruses, which
> could damage your systems. CODA has checked the attachments for viruses
> before sending, but you should virus-check them before opening
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as gflato at nanometrics.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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> This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential
> information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not
> the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended
> recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based
> on this message is strictly prohibited.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:04:03 +0000
> From: Steve Rickaby <srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker
> To: "Gillian Flato" <gflato at nanometrics.com>
> Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com
> Message-ID: <p0624080fc1a73247d0a6@[192.168.0.4]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> At 08:49 -0800 14/12/06, Gillian Flato wrote:
>
>>This brings up a topic that will affect us soon. My company just merged
>>with a company on England. They write their manuals the English way (i.e.
>>colour, theatre etc.) and we write the American way (color, theater). In
>>2007, I will be working on a project with them so the docset will be split
>>up between their local tech writer and me.
>
> I assume you mean 'in England'. I know we're smaller than you, but we're
> bigger than just a rock in the Atlantic ;-)
>
>>So the question is, which English do we standardize on?
>
> And the answer is... whichever you prefer. It's a corporate policy-level
> issue, but in most cases it's US English that wins out.
>
> As a UK-based tech author, I very frequently have to work in US English,
> both for US clients and for UK publishers who have standardised on US
> English for the international market. I think you'd find that any
> competent tech author should be conversant with this - although I have to
> look up the punctuation rules every time. Make sure your author realises
> that it's not just spelling: word usage, punctuation, grammar and idiom
> are involved too. I'm sure there are good reference works on the subject.
>
> One thing to be wary of, if we're talking about FrameMaker: I've found
> that the US English dictionary is sometimes a little too lax. For example,
> it accepts both 'modelling' and 'modeling'. Or mine does, anyway.
>
> --
> Steve
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:08:39 -0000
> From: "Mark Southee" <Mark.Southee at surfcontrol.com>
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker
> To: "Gillian Flato" <gflato at nanometrics.com>, "Phil Heron"
> <Phil.Heron at CODA.com>, "framers" <framers at frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <92F9E2BED68127409916E3DDAC5C25492E93B2 at COMX01.surfcontrol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I'd say it depends where your biggest market is. I work for a UK Plc who's
> biggest market is the US. Therefore our docs are in US English.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+mark.southee=surfcontrol.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+mark.southee=surfcontrol.com at lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of Gillian Flato
> Sent: 14 December 2006 16:49
> To: Phil Heron; framers
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english Framemaker
>
> This brings up a topic that will affect us soon. My company just merged
> with a company on England. They write their manuals the English way (i.e.
> colour, theatre etc.) and we write the American way (color, theater). In
> 2007, I will be working on a project with them so the docset will be split
> up between their local tech writer and me.
>
> So the question is, which English do we standardize on?
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Gillian Flato
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+gflato=nanometrics.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+gflato=nanometrics.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of Phil Heron
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:30 AM
> To: framers
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english Framemaker
>
>
> Verner,
>
> I believe my copy of FramMaker is the International English one.
>
> When you install it you see a dialog asking you to choose between US
> English or International English. I guess you wouldn't see this dialog if
> you had a US-only version.
>
> Choosing International English installs A4 versions of the custom
> templates. I don't think there's any other difference.
>
> (One extra step I take after installing is to change the "Language"
> setting in maker.ini from USEnglish to UKEnglish - this sets UK English as
> the default language in the designers.)
>
>
> _____________________________
> Phil Heron
> CODA Group International Ltd
> Tel +44 (0)1423 509999
> __________________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: framers-bounces+phil.heron=coda.com at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces+phil.heron=coda.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf Of Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
> Sent: 14 December 2006 07:21
> To: Framers at FrameUsers.com
> Subject: Difference between us and international english Framemaker
>
>
> All
> Is there a difference between International and US Framemaker. My manager
> has bought the International version of FrameMaker for me.
>
> Our corporate language is US English.
>
> Verner Andersen
> Technical Writer
>
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> Ã...kandevej 21 â- 2700 Brønshøj â- Denmark
> Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
> Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
> E-mail: verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
> Web: www.radiometer.com
>
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential and/or
> proprietary information intended only for the addressee.
> Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on the
> contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may constitute a
> violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
> the sender immediately by responding to this e-mail, and delete the
> message from your system. If you have any questions about this e-mail
> please notify the sender immediately.
>
>
> Using spreadsheets for group consolidation and reporting?
> Report faster and eliminate spreadsheet errors with CODA's consolidation
> system, OCRA. Click here for more
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. It may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the
> addressee. If you receive this message in error, please advise us
> immediately.
>
> Internet emails are not necessarily secure. CODA does not accept
> responsibility for changes to any email which occur after the email has
> been sent. Attachments to this email may contain software viruses, which
> could damage your systems. CODA has checked the attachments for viruses
> before sending, but you should virus-check them before opening
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as gflato at nanometrics.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential
> information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not
> the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended
> recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based
> on this message is strictly prohibited.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as Mark.Southee at surfcontrol.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
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>
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>
>
> Get the latest news on SurfControl and our products,
> subscribe to our monthly e-newsletter, SurfAdvisory at:
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> *********************************************************************
> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this
> email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken
> or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be
> unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error,
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> *********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:49:48 -0800
> From: "Conole, David \(SNL US\)" <david.conole at siemens.com>
> Subject: RE: Cross reference keyboard shortcut
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <B29A3C75EA17074BA05963A9F0F32B3A0E6DC82C at USNWK100MSX.ww017.siemens.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> This is not really a keyboard shortcut, but a shortcut in general. My
> friend and co-worker Steve Agin suggests: Just right click the mouse and
> select Cross Reference.
>
>
> David P. Conole
> Contract Technical Writer
> Siemens Network Convergence
> Chelmsford, MA
> (978) 923-3480
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:07:01 -0800
> From: David Creamer <ideaslists at ideastraining.com>
> Subject: RE: Cross reference keyboard shortcut
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <C1A56525.3B0AE%ideaslists at ideastraining.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>> You can also use the following key combination, which I find a little
>> easier: ALT+s c
>>
> For general menu access, I also prefer the old Windows (DOS?) Alt key
> shortcut over any similar Esc shortcuts. It is easier to remember and it
> works in virtually any program.
>
> David Creamer
> I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
> http://www.IDEAStraining.com
> Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
> Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
> Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified
> Apple Consultant Network member (since 1990)
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:48:06 -0700
> From: "Combs, Richard" <richard.combs at Polycom.com>
> Subject: RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked"
> To: "Fred Staal" <Fred.Staal at schilling.com>,
> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <AABEB232F95338499DF8F513EE2B2C784C2D91 at WSTEXCH00.westminster.polycom.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Fred Staal wrote:
>
>> Every now and then I get stuck with one of those
>> auto-generated paragraphs that appears after a text inset
>> that refuses to cooperate with being retagged for the
>> subsequent paragraph and can't even be deleted. As a last
>> resort, I recently converted a file with this problem to a
>> .mif and in Notepad found the offending paragraph, which
>> included the following notation: "Pgf Locked." When I deleted
>> this line, and then opened the file in FM, the paragraph tag
>> could be deleted.
>> Is there a keyboard shortcut in Framemaker for unlocking a
>> paragraph with this problem? (FM6, XP, etc.)
>
> I don't understand what you did in the MIF and have never heard of
> locking/unlocking pgfs, but I have some insight regarding how text
> insets work that may help. There's no such thing as an "auto-generated
> paragraph that appears after a text inset." There can, however, be an
> undesired pgf format change.
>
> Do you work with View > Text Symbols turned on? You should. You can't
> tell what's going on with text insets (among other things) if you don't
> see the pilcrows (end-of-pgf symbols) at the end of each pgf.
>
> A text inset always "sits in" a container paragraph in the destination
> document. The container pgf is the place that your text cursor was when
> you executed the File > Import > File command to import the text inset.
> If you're like most people, this was at the end of a pgf, and often it's
> an otherwise empty pgf.
>
> If you have text symbols showing, how this works becomes obvious when
> you click your text inset to select it. You'll see that the literal
> "black box" of the selected text inset ends just to left of the pilcrow
> (if the text inset is in an empty pgf).
>
> The problem with this stems from a weird FM bug: If the text inset is
> the only thing in the container pgf, or if it comes at the end of the
> container pgf, the container pgf assumes the formatting of the first pgf
> in the text inset. This can cause some serious grief if, for instance,
> that first pgf is a 24-point heading.
>
> There's an easy solution: Don't let your text insets sit at the end of a
> paragraph (adjacent to the pilcrow). Make sure there is something --
> anything -- to the right of the cursor before you import the text inset.
> I use non-breaking spaces so that I can see the symbol (I always work
> with text symbols displayed).
>
> For existing text insets, just insert something -- anything -- between
> the end of the text inset and the end of the container pgf. Then you can
> change the container pgf's format, and the change will stick.
>
> HTH!
> Richard
>
>
> ------
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-777-0436
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:53:11 +0000
> From: Steve Rickaby <srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked"
> To: "Combs, Richard" <richard.combs at Polycom.com>, "Fred Staal"
> <Fred.Staal at schilling.com>, <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID: <p06240812c1a73fa3f247@[192.168.0.4]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Richard
>
> Many thanks for a clear exposition of this oh-so-irritating and confusing
> bug.
>
> Am I correct in assuming that this affects only formatted insets, and not
> plain ASCII insert files? (As they contain no formatting...)
>
> --
> Steve
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:33:12 -0700
> From: "Combs, Richard" <richard.combs at Polycom.com>
> Subject: RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked"
> To: "Steve Rickaby" <srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk>, "Fred Staal"
> <Fred.Staal at schilling.com>, <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <AABEB232F95338499DF8F513EE2B2C784C2D94 at WSTEXCH00.westminster.polycom.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Steve Rickaby wrote:
>
>> Richard
>>
>> Many thanks for a clear exposition of this oh-so-irritating
>> and confusing bug.
>>
>> Am I correct in assuming that this affects only formatted
>> insets, and not plain ASCII insert files? (As they contain no
>> formatting...)
>
> You're welcome, Steve. The only plain text insets I can think of (some
> Java code examples) are followed by non-breaking spaces -- but I think
> that's just habit. :-)
>
> I'm sure your assumption is correct -- the container can't "inherit" a
> named pgf format from an inset that doesn't contain pgf format names.
>
> Richard
>
>
> ------
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-777-0436
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 08:59:16 +1100
> From: hedley.finger at myob.com
> Subject: RE: Difference between us and international english
> Framemaker
> To: "Gillian Flato" <gflato at nanometrics.com>
> Cc: framers <framers at frameusers.com>,
> framers-bounces+hedley.finger=myob.com at lists.frameusers.com, Phil
> Heron <Phil.Heron at CODA.com>
> Message-ID:
> <OFD86D985C.C594BD4C-ONCA257244.00789228-CA257244.0078C865 at myob.com.au>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Gillian:
>
>> They write their manuals the English way* (i.e. colour, theatre etc.)
>> and we write the American way** (color, theater). In 2007, I will be
>> working on a project with them so the docset will be split up between
>> their local tech writer and me.
>> So the question is, which English do we standardize on?
>
> Both. Use conditions.
>
> Regards,
> Hedley
>
> * A.k.a. the right way.
> ** A.k.a. the wrong way.
>
> --
> Hedley Finger
> Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
> MYOB Australia Pty Ltd <http://myob.com/au>
> P.O. box 371 Blackburn VIC 3130 Australia
> 12 Wesley Court Tally Ho Business Park East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia
> <mailto:hedleyDOTfingerATmyobDOTcom>
> Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421, Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558
>
> © MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2006
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:09:59 -0800
> From: "Susan Nishi" <snishi at seon.com>
> Subject: Heading rows overridden in table
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <048FD8A7B744DD4E8F5C3AB97EB4DCD50E0488 at seon-exch.seon.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Whenever I insert a new table into my Frame document, the heading row
> for the table is overridden.
>
>
>
> Table heading has been assigned a Table heading designation in the
> Paragraph catalog of Th whereas the table shows up with Table Heading.
> Table Heading (TH) doesn't appear in the paragraph catalog so I can't
> delete it. Does anyone know how to fix this?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Susan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:04:54 -0800
> From: "Torralba, Jing" <jtorralba at saratogasystems.com>
> Subject: RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <AC79AFB0229F9F4D924A56588D66336B02EDF895 at ssiexchange2k3.ssi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> I'm so glad you brought this subject up.
>
> I found the same problem in some of the files I inherited from the
> previous staff. It's awful because the generated paragraph is sometimes
> an AppendixNum. I tried your solution but perhaps I'm missing something
> because it did not work for me. All my paratags have PgfLocked set to
> No. Can you share more details? Incidentally, this is my first time to
> work with MIFs.
>
> Does anyone know if the auto-generated paratag after an inset still
> shows up in Frame 7?
>
> Jing Torralba
> Saratoga Systems, Inc.
> (408) 558-9606
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:07:25 -0800
> From: "Fred Staal" <Fred.Staal at schilling.com>
> Subject: Unlocking "Pgf Locked"
> To: <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Message-ID:
> <825CF3FE62B1D54A8D41BBE45AF941AF01E6F9BF at EX20DAV.schilling.loc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Every now and then I get stuck with one of those auto-generated
> paragraphs that appears after a text inset that refuses to cooperate
> with being retagged for the subsequent paragraph and can't even be
> deleted. As a last resort, I recently converted a file with this
> problem to a .mif and in Notepad found the offending paragraph, which
> included the following notation: "Pgf Locked." When I deleted this line,
> and then opened the file in FM, the paragraph tag could be deleted.
> Is there a keyboard shortcut in Framemaker for unlocking a paragraph
> with this problem? (FM6, XP, etc.)
>
> Fred Staal
> Supervisor, Technical Publications
> Schilling Robotics, LLC
> Phone: (530) 753-6718 x155
> Fax: (530) 753-8092
> fred.staal at schilling.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to
> Framers.
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/listinfo/framers
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> End of Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14
> ***************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:23:23 -0600
> From: Peter Gold <peter at knowhowpro.com>
> Subject: Re: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
> To: "Torralba, Jing" <jtorralba at saratogasystems.com>,
> framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Message-ID: <4582071B.6030305 at knowhowpro.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I don't have a real clue, but I'm wondering if perhaps the status of the
> inset source file could cause this to happen. This is just a wild guess:
>
> For example, if the source file is set to read-only, or the author
> doesn't have sufficient permission to access the file, or perhaps the
> file is in a checked-out state from a content-management system, do
> these cause the problem? We have seen that there's a problem with insets
> sometimes affecting adjacent paragraphs in the container file. Perhaps a
> combination of these and/or similar factors is involved.
>
> Another thought: is it possible that the inset source files and/or the
> container files belong to more than one book, or more than one author,
> and there are multiple simultaneous accesses involved?
>
> And one more: are these files on a network file server, or on a local
> drive? Does the problem occur only on server-based files, or only on
> local files, or no significant relation to either?
>
> HTH
> ________________
> Regards,
>
> Peter Gold
> KnowHow ProServices
>
> Torralba, Jing wrote:
>> Hi Fred,
>>
>> I'm so glad you brought this subject up.
>>
>> I found the same problem in some of the files I inherited from the
>> previous staff. It's awful because the generated paragraph is sometimes
>> an AppendixNum. I tried your solution but perhaps I'm missing something
>> because it did not work for me. All my paratags have PgfLocked set to
>> No. Can you share more details? Incidentally, this is my first time to
>> work with MIFs.
>>
>> Does anyone know if the auto-generated paratag after an inset still
>> shows up in Frame 7?
>>
>
>
>
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