[Framers] "Secret" Freeze Pagination Feature

Tue Apr 25 08:24:54 PDT 2017

Good question, Stephan. Thanks.

There is lots of good info in these replies.

I think Grant makes the key point: point pages are vestiges of printed
documentation. They are based on retaining a historical record as
documentation goes through revisions. IMO, the idea is like sci-fi time
travel, kind of "keep the past alive while introducing the present into its
midst," while not changing anything. The point-page problems that have been
"pointed out" here testify to the conundrum.

Institutions and professions that need to preserve all iterations of a
document from its origin through all revisions to its current state, need
some mechanism. Track Changes features can do this for content, but they
don't deactivate automated features like original page layouts,
page-numbering, paragraph numbering, cross-references, linked-in external
content, TOCs, and indexes, etc.

Perhaps this is where investing in research and development might be useful
to investigate the real value to audiences where the need exists, and to
evaluate the size of the audience. Modern content storage, versioning, and
retrieval systems might serve those institutions that need full historical
records, but the issue of retaining that early printed-paper model of
original pages with interspersed point pages would still remain problematic.

Research into this specific area would consume development dollars that are
needed to complete the long list of old and new bugs, and
incompletely-implemented features. So it's important to keep priorities
straight.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Grant Hogarth <grant at hedgewizard.net>
wrote:

> Hi Stefan;
>     I used it a few times back in the day (I've been using FM since v2) to
> create "insert" pages (for documents that were printed and stored in 3-ring
> binders). These pages would be updates to the existing document. That said,
> I have not used the feature in many years, and I'm not sure it is useful
> outside of a paper-based environment. I suppose one could create such a
> page as something to be inserted into a PDF, but I'd have to be convinced
> of the value of that in comparison to a linked list of changes.
> I'd much rather have an in-built tracking option that I could use to flag
> changes and be able to add an auto-generated list of changes chapter to a
> publication. (I see it as similar to the existing LOF/LOI functionality.)
>
> Regards
> Grant
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Shmuel Wolfson" <shmuelw1 at gmail.com>
> To: "Framers - frameusers.com" <framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Sent: 4/25/2017 6:58:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Framers] "Secret" Freeze Pagination Feature
>
> You understood me correctly, but the user should be able to define several
>> styles.
>>
>> As a take-off on your idea (of warning before printing), how about a way
>> to check (via a menu command) if the TOC is out of sync, in addition to the
>> warning before printing. However, this should include chapter TOCs as well.
>> If your feature would work for mini-TOCs but not text inset TOCs, I guess
>> that would be good enough, even though I have tons of docs that still use
>> the text inset TOCs.
>>
>> Another option would be to have a warning in the dialog box that opens
>> after a book update that the TOC (and maybe LOF or LOT) has changes in
>> chapter X, and that you should update the local TOC if one exists. This
>> would be enough to address my issue of headings changing pages. Actually
>> there is a potential problem with this solution that if you use only three
>> heading levels in the TOC, but use four levels in the chapter TOC, it would
>> be have check for that also.
>>
>> Also, your idea does not address tables that have rows that move onto a
>> new page. I think a warning as the table rows actually move to a new page
>> would be a good idea for this problem.
>>
>> --
>> Shmuel Wolfson
>> Technical Writer
>> 058-763-7133
>>
>>
>> On 25-Apr-17 3:15 PM, Stefan Gentz wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shmuel,
>>>
>>> thanks for your answer. I'm not sure if I completely understand the
>>> requirement. Do I understand right, that you would like to be able to
>>> define a specific style (e.g. "Heading1") in some sort of "Repagination
>>> Warning Setup" (dialog) and whenever you add or remove content somewhere
>>> that makes one of the paragraphs tagged with "Heading1" on some other page
>>> move to some other page you get a warning message? (Same for the table
>>> example you mentioned.)
>>>
>>> Plus: I'm just wondering right now, if a feature that automatically
>>> warns you when you want to save as PDF / print that your automatically
>>> generated lists (TOC, IX etc.) are "out of sync" and recommends to update
>>> them. Would that be useful?
>>>
>>>   Regards,
>>> Stefan Gentz
>>> Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+gentz=
>>> adobe.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 13:58
>>> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Framers] "Secret" Freeze Pagination Feature
>>>
>>> Hi Stefan,
>>>
>>> Instead of freeze pagination, what I would like is a pagination warning.
>>> This feature would, when turned on, warn you when a paragraph with one
>>> of the user-specified specified styles moves to a new page, and when some
>>> rows of a table end up on a new page. This would be helpful when editing a
>>> doc, so that you know when the pagination changed and the TOC needs to be
>>> updated, or to look over the tables to see where rows moved to a new page.
>>> For extra credit, the feature would also provide a list of where these
>>> changes occurred. This would be a great help. Many times after a few edits,
>>> I find myself reviewing the entire doc to see where the headings appear and
>>> updating all the TOCs just in case a heading, table caption or figure
>>> caption, moved to a new page.
>>>
>>> The current feature the way it is is pretty much useless to me.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shmuel Wolfson
>>> Technical Writer
>>> 058-763-7133
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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