[Framers] OT: Reference question

tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc.com tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc.com
Wed Sep 29 09:21:04 PDT 2021 

Jeff and Dan,

 

I totally agree w/ both of you. The closest that I have ever seen to this is
a citation w/in a citation such as: 

 

In-text reference: 

 

(Original author last name, Year of original work, as cited in Author last
name of work where quote found, Year)

Miller (1953, as cited in Agrios, 2005) found .

. as was found (Miller, 1953, as cited in Agrios, 2005).

 

Reference list (only the citing article defined):

 

Agrios, G.N. (2005). Plant pathology (5th ed.). Elsevier Academic Press.

 

I just have to tread carefully on this about which battles to pick . . .
trying to get standardization on variables alone has been tricky such as
only a little f or a big F for fraction . . . and if I rip out the embedded
reference and reference only the citing article, (just as you indicated
Jeff, and that is exactly what I am doing now), I just wanted some type of
back up. My SMEs are very territorial about the their content in this, and
as much as I want to make this guide correct in every way (technically
accurate, grammar, syntax, etc.) I have to work hard to avoid "but we've
always done it this way, so leave it alone" push back. Sigh. . . .

 

Tammy Van Boening

Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Framers <framers-

> bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc.com at lists.frameusers.com> On

> Behalf Of Harding, Dan

> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 7:07 AM

> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

> <framers at lists.frameusers.com>

> Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Reference question

> 

> But why even reference the original article? Doesn't the
revised/republished

> article supplant the former entirely, so just cite it? I've not seen this
type of

> recursive citing before. Seems extraneous to me.

> 

> -Dan

> 

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Framers <
<mailto:framers-bounces+dharding=illinois.edu at lists.frameusers.com> framers-

 <mailto:framers-bounces+dharding=illinois.edu at lists.frameusers.com> >
bounces+dharding=illinois.edu at lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Jeff

> Coatsworth

> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 6:42 AM

> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

> < <mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com> framers at lists.frameusers.com>

> Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Reference question

> 

> I've never seen an embedded reference in all my years in university. I
would

> have thought that the second one would have just quoted the title of the

> first one - e.g.

> 

> 

> Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). "Rodgers T, Leahy D, Rowland M.
2005.

> Physiologically based pharmacokinetic modeling 1: Predicting the tissue

> distribution of moderate-to-strong bases." J Pharm Sci 94(6): 1259-76.

> 

> 

> and ditched the first location - IMHO, that's not part of the title of the
second

> article.

> 

> 

> ________________________________

> From: Framers <
<mailto:framers-bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub.com at lists.frameusers.com>
framers-

 <mailto:framers-bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub.com at lists.frameusers.com>
> bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub.com at lists.frameusers.com> on behalf

> of  <mailto:tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc.com> tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc.com
< <mailto:tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc.com> tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc.com>

> Sent: September 28, 2021 5:16 PM

> To:  <mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com> framers at lists.frameusers.com

> Subject: [Framers] OT: Reference question

> 

> OK, I know this is off-topic but because this list is filled with seasoned

> veterans of technical writing, I know I can get my answer here. I am
working

> on the references for a client document, and have to sort through the

> existing references that I was given and make sure it is accurate,
current,

> etc., and I came across a couple of instances of a reference within a

> reference such as:

> 

> 

> 

> Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2005). "Physiologically based
pharmacokinetic

> modeling 1: predicting the tissue distribution of moderate-to-strong
bases." J

> Pharm Sci 94(6): 1259-76.

> 

> 

> 

> Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). "Rodgers T, Leahy D, Rowland M.
2005.

> Physiologically based pharmacokinetic modeling 1: Predicting the tissue

> distribution of moderate-to-strong bases. J Pharm Sci 94:1259-1276." J
Pharm

> Sci 96(11): 3151-3152.

> 

> 

> 

> You can see that the first reference is embedded/cited in the second

> reference. This was not the way that I was taught a gazillion years ago to
cite

> an embedded reference. Basically, if the content of the embedded

> reference was standalone in a new reference, regardless of the source,
then

> the new reference was all that was cited, for example:

> 

> 

> 

> Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). Physiologically based
pharmacokinetic

> modeling 1: Predicting the tissue distribution of moderate-to-strong
bases.

> J Pharm Sci 96(11): 3151-3152.

> 

> 

> 

> I looked at these papers and the content was standalone in the second

> reference and it cited the first reference for the content, but because
the

> content was standalone in the second reference, I should cite only the

> second reference where appropriate. (God, does that even make sense. . . I

> am thinking of the Friends episode, "The One Where Everybody Finds Out,"

> and they don't know that we know that they know and Joey loses his mind.)

> 

> 

> 

> I just need some advice from some seasoned writers about how to handle

> this.

> 

> 

> 

> Thanks!

> 

> 

> 

> TVB

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>   _____

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